From : http://www.indianexpress.com/news/rural-medicine-course-classes-to-be-held-in-district-schools/571387/0
According to the draft of the proposed rural medical course — Bachelor of Rural Medicine and Surgery’ (BRMS), the classes will be held in medical schools (located in district hospitals) and the examinations will be conducted as well as the degrees conferred by the university to which the medical schools would be affiliated.
Districts where no medical college exists will be given preference for establishment of these schools with a minimum of either 25 or 50 students.
The medical schools will have residential campuses, and a district-based admission system has been charted out for the course.
Those with the BRMS degree can be sent anywhere across the state, but they cannot seek service in any other state or else their degree will be rendered invalid. The draft reads: “Registration of the BRMS graduate will be worked out by the states concerned and their respective medical councils. The medical schools will be recognised for the conferment of degree by the concerned state medical council or by such authority as would be notified for the said purpose.”
The registered graduates will be under the ambit of disciplinary jurisdiction of the code of medical ethics prescribed by the Medical Council of India (MCI). Also, the registration has to be renewed on a yearly basis for four years when they get permanent registration.
The course will be broken up into Anatomy, Physiology and Biochemistry, Pathology and Microbiology, Pharmacology, Forensic medicine, Medicine and allied disciplines, Paediatrics, Surgical an allied disciplines, Orthopaedics, Obstetrics and Gynaecology and community medicine.
The draft specifies in the teachers’ eligibility criteria that medical officers without PG degree cannot go beyond Assistant Professors.
An MBBS degree holder with three years experience as medical officer is eligible for the post of lecturer; a medical officer with postgraduation qualifies as assistant professor; a medical officer with PG qualification and eight years experience as medical officer can become an associate professor; and a medical officer with PG qualification and 14 years experience as medical officer can become a professor.
While these are some of the key points mentioned in the draft, MCI president Dr Ketan Desai said: “The key points listed in the draft will be the skeleton for the implementation of this course. Only a few changes are expected in the final framework.”
MEMORANDUM TO THE HEALTH MINISTER OF INDIA
NATIONAL INTEGRATED MEDICAL ASSOCIATION
PATHARDI BRANCH –
MEMORANDUM TO THE HEALTH MINISTER OF INDIA
1st January 2010
To,
The Health Minister,
Government of India
Sub : Regarding the proposal of MCI & Health Ministry to start new course for rural health request from NATIONAL INTEGRATED MEDICAL ASSOCIATION
Respected sir,
We came to know from news paper reports that MCI & Health Ministry are going to start new three & half years course (BRMS) for rural health.
Sir, we are BAMS & BHMS general practitioners in Maharashtra. Most of us are from rural background and practicing in rural area since last 10 to 20 years.
BAMS practitioners are allowed to practice modern medicine under Drugs & Cosmetics Act 1945 Sec 2ee, in Maharashtra.
Sir, we are competent to provide proper health-care in rural area. We are also ready to undergo any qualifying test or training, if Ministry thinks so.
According to us there is adequate number of general practitioners in rural Maharashtra, and there is no need to start three & half years BRMS course as far as Maharashtra is concerned.
With regards..
PRESIDENT,
NIMA, PATHARDI
IT IS THE TIME TO INTENSIFY OUR AGITATION
I t is good thing that debate started on ” Rural Health Care”…
but it is on wrong path, the MCI proposed BRMS ( now named BRHC),The course will benefit education barons & not the rural population. The private medical colleges are run by politicians & medical councils have strong influence of politicians on them. The “new dukakdari” will now start & the runners of this shop will be education barons, bureaucrats & so called professors…
We have to strongly oppose this course, the AYUSH students in UP are on strike..
Unani colleges are on strike..
we have to intensify our agitation have to communicate with BAMS/BHMS college students..
It is the the right time to fight for our legal rights…protest against this BRMS/BRHC course..
we are bright practitioners/students, we have not taken admission to these courses out of love for ayurveda or homeopathy..but to become general practitioner.
We are able to provide proper health care at GP level..we are ready to prove it any time…
But lastly…
keep away the advocates of Ayurveda & Homeopathy from this agitation..
LET US UNITE TO PROVIDE BETTER HEALTH SERVICES FOR OUR PEOPLE
SAY NO TO BRMS/ BHRC COURSE : SIGN THE PETITION
Sign the petition
for details visit the page : SAY NO 2 BRMS/BHRC COURSE
Respected Health minister, GOI,
I humbly request to you consider AYUSH AND HOMEOPATHY doctors (BAMS/BHMS)for rural health care by training them in 1 yr pharmacology and modern medicine instead introducing a new course(BRMS)as BAMS/BHMS doctors doing excellent job in rural area. Going forward, GOI need to give serious thought to having uniform medical degree (MBBS) instead of BAMS/BHMS/MBBS/BSMS/BYNS etc.
Looking forward to good initiatives in medical education from you.
With thanks and regards
Shahul
Wonderful request……..only need to learn pharmacology and moderm medicine to be an MBBS doctor……better MBBS doctors study about Arishtam and Kashayam etc….Why not people request for that???? why feeling inferior to MBBS doctors??? so we can create more quacks ! ! ! ! ! ! Then it is better to teach BSc Nurses about pharmacology and mordern medicine….Everybody want to be an MBBS doctor….Pharmacists are also waiting there…. Let everyone be MBBS doctors…..
Why dont you serve the rural people with you own branch of medicine??? Is it not effective enough to cure the diseases??? or are you ashamed of being an ayush doctor???? your request is shameful for the entire ayush and homeopathy doctors……So sad to see so…
There is no need of different councils like CCIM & CCH..
The councils are ” white elephants “..!
The MCI has taken a dedicated step to give healthcare to rural people through creating a new comited graduate in medicine and thus saving the rural people from geting treatment from village quacks who does not know the ABC of medical science.It is a noble concept and we all should support to make it a success.
Please see http://www.payanangal.in/2010/02/blog-post.html
24.02.2010 அன்று நான் என் வலைப்பதிவில் எழுதியிருந்ததை படித்திருப்பீர்கள்
பிப்ரவரி 24, 2010 : Rural MBBS என்னும் பித்தலாட்டம்
இன்று இந்து நாளிதழில் முன்னாள் மத்திய சுகாதார துறை அமைச்சர் மருத்துவர் அன்புமணி அவர்கள் இது குறித்து எழுதியுள்ளார்
February 27, 2010 : Opinion » Lead : The wrong way for rural doctors
ஒரு மத்திய அமைச்சரை போலவே நானும் சிந்தித்துள்ளேன், அதுவும் நான்கு நாட்களுக்கு முன்னதாகவே என்பது மிகுந்த மகிழ்ச்சியையும் பெருமையையும் சிறிது நம்பிக்கையையும் அளிக்கிறது !!!
NATIONALIZE ALL THE PRIVATE MEDICAL COLLEGES & UPGRADE ALL EXISTING BAMS/BHMS/BUMS COLLEGES TO MBBS & PROVIDE UNIFORM MEDICAL DEGREE IN INDIA
We hereby request to
Hon,President of India,
Hon,Prime minister of India,
Hon, Health Minister of India
& All the Hon, MP’s from Rajyasabha & Loksabha
to seriously think on “Nationalization of Medical Education”…
1)Medical Education should be on the top of priority list of Govt of India..
Privatization of medical education started in 1953,
& now every big politician owns a Medical college & sugar factory.
those who cant own medical college, own BAMS or BHMS colleges..
management quota seats are literally sold.
Medical Education is now market, where those who have lot of money can get admissions
Truly worthy students are deprived from getting medical education, in this Bazar.
Those who invest money for education naturally tries to put out the invested money with interest, they are going to accept freebies & gifts from the Pharma companies, no matter MCI’s Ketan Desai bans it.
True Medical professional needs Empathy, Emotions & Ethics in his heart.
Privatization of Medical Education kept all these words into dictionary
2)Upgrade all the existing BAMS/BHMS/BUMS/BSMS colleges to MBBS & provide them with necessary infrastructure.
Existing BAMS/BHMS/BUMS/BSMS practitioners should be upgraded to MBBS by offering them refreshing course in medicine & pharmacology through CME centers at Taluka/Tehsil level.The CME centers at Taluka/Tehsil level should be provided with recent advances in technology like video conferencing.
3) Government’s job is to provide/ensure proper health care to it’s citizens & not to promote the different pathies, hence AYUSH dept. & CCIM & CCH should be scrapped.
& Uniform scientific medical syllabus should be offered in the Nation,Ayurveda,unani & siddha would be offered as optional subjects.as they have the Indian origin & should be considered as potential resource for research in main stream medicine.
Thanx with Regards
NIMA PATHARDI
Why are u crying to become a MBBS doctor??? want to make more money than you make now??? or not making enough now??? Is not your branch of medicine effective enough to cure diseases???Then who will go for ayush and homeopathy courses??? you all want to be an MBBS doctor ! !! ! ! !
why u r jealus on bams and bhms doctors? bcause ur mbbs.there r few colleges for mbbs and more scope.mbbs are applicable for all india medical servises exams ,more govt jobs which they dont do seriusly.there colleges have good infrastructure,hospitals,patients,quellified staff.there they became superior otherwise they r not learn from mothers womb.
Usually people get jealous on good things…So there is no question of I am getting jealous on you…If you are smart enough and intelligent enough, you would have got admission for the MBBS course after your plus two….You have got what you are suitable for….Try hard and sincerly and serve the rural public with your capacity…If you are smart enough you can make money in your feild too….don’t try to enter in to morden medicine in a short cut way…you have already proved you are not suitable for the MBBS course…
Dear Dr.Vtharavath,
While we agree with your point that “don’t try to enter in to morden medicine in a short cut way”, we feel that comments like “you have already proved you are not suitable for the MBBS course” are not suited for your dignity !
Dear Sir
First of all let me express my appology to use a comment“you have already proved you are not suitable for the MBBS course”.I am Really sorry for that.The alligation on me by my friend that I am “jealous on BAMS and BHMS doctors” made me to say like that…I am really sorry once again. I will take care in the future no to use such phrases..
Thank you once again for your positive comments.
Regards
Vtharavath
//Medical Education is now market,where those who have lot of money can get admissions
Truly worthy students are deprived from getting medical education,in this Bazar.
Those who invest money for education naturally tries to put out the invested money with interest,they are going to accept freebies &gifts from the Pharma companies,no matter MCI’s Ketan Desai bans it.//
This is the true scenario of ‘Indian Medical Education System’..
And you are calling you crying..?
Shame of you..!
Dear Dr.Vtharavath
//Medical Education is now market,where those who have lot of money can get admissions
Truly worthy students are deprived from getting medical education,in this Bazar.
Those who invest money for education naturally tries to put out the invested money with interest,they are going to accept freebies &gifts from the Pharma companies,no matter MCI’s Ketan Desai bans it.//
This is the true scenario of ‘Indian Medical Education System’..
And you are calling you crying..?
Shame of you..!
Why are u crying to become a MBBS doctor??? want to make more money than you make now??? or not making enough now??? Is not your branch of medicine effective enough to cure diseases???Then who will go for ayush and homeopathy courses??? you all want to be an MBBS doctor ! !! ! ! !
Dear Dr.Vtharavath
//Medical Education is now market,where those who have lot of money can get admissions
Truly worthy students are deprived from getting medical education,in this Bazar.
Those who invest money for education naturally tries to put out the invested money with interest,they are going to accept freebies &gifts from the Pharma companies,no matter MCI’s Ketan Desai bans it.//
This is the true scenario of ‘Indian Medical Education System’..
And you are calling you crying..?
One needs Heart & Brain to accept the reality…
Shame of you..!
Dear dr.santosh tupere
The declared merit seats for MBBS is not sold under any circumstances. Also certain new self finance medical colleges provide some percentage of their medical seats for merit students, which increase the opportunity of a merit student to get admitted to MBBS course. So the existence of private medical colleges increases the opportunity of merit students. But you have to see the other side of the coin. To maintain and run private medical colleges, the govt is not providing any money or facilities to them. Private colleges have to make this money from either the fees or by selling the seats. What ever the case may be, the govt cannot acquire the seats available with private medical colleges for the merit students. These seats are extra to the merit seats available.If we say no to these seats, the only result is that these seats will no more be available to either poor merit student or to the rich student who purchases seats by paying money. Having money is not any ones fault. Who ever has money let them pay and get admission to MBBS? Why should we object it? You are never going to get those seats under merit quota .Then why?
I Underline my statement that only those students having enough talent, intelligence, ability and attitude can become a successful doctor in modern medicine and vice versa.
If we don’t allow him to study in India he may go abroad and study medicine. The money he would spend will be lost to our country.
Nowadays studying MBBS abroad is much cheaper than studying that in India.
Keep one thing in mind that if we oppose the admission to MBBS seat in the market place, don’t expect that it will add on to the merit seat and the opportunity of the merit student will increase. Never, ever you get those seats under merit. Either the private colleges will be closed or these seats will not be available for the purchase. So what is the advantage you are getting by opposing the admission to these market available seats? Govt cannot purchase these seats and give to the merit students.
One should insist the Govt to increase the merit seats in the Govt colleges and to increase the standards of medical education in India and tighten the structure and method of conduction of university examinations etc
One more point to add…Who ever pay money and get admission to MBBS course will have to pass the University examination which will make him qualified for practicing as a doctor in modern medicine. By paying money for the admission doesn’t award him MBBS Degree.
Vtharavath
Dear Vtharavath
Why are you defending “Ketan Bhai’s” polocies..?
………..AND YOUR CHANCES OF GETTING ADMISSION TO MBBS COURSE WILL BE THE SAME IF YOU DON”T PREPARE WELL FOR THE QUALIFYING EXAMINATIONS FPR THE ADMISION TO MBBS COURSES……..
Vtharavath
…………..AND YOUR CHANCES OF GETTING ADMISSION TO MBBS COURSE WILL BE THE SAME IF YOU DON’T PREPARE WELL FOR THE QUALIFYING EXAMINATIONS FOR THE ADMISION TO MBBS COURSES…………………..
Vtharavath
Dear Dr.dr.santosh tupere
I have simple question …
Why every one so eager to become an MBBS Graduate including you….
Why they are not so eager to be an AYUSH practitiner?…..
Why no parma is giving freebies &gifts to you.You are also a medical practitioner and part of the Indian health care system isn’t it?
Private AYUSH colleges are also selling their seats for money ! ! ! ! ! ! !
Vtharavath
Azad and company think that our profession is like a cricket game. MBBS is boring like the Test match. So they are introducing ‘Limited Over’ MBBS. Now, no wonder, they may go for ‘T20’ medical course for two years duration. That will be more interesting.
Even Honkong ckricket (6over game) is much more interesting. Likewise govt may definitely go for such kind of certificate courses in medicine in the near future which will be more interesting.
They are going to call this BRHC institution as ‘Medical Schools’..
No wonder, one can see ‘Medical Nursery ‘,’Medical kindergartens’ in the near future!! HO HO good idea… why should our kids waste their life much on studies??
Or at the ultimate like our Mysore University conducting some degree courses, the govt may advertise like ‘Those who attained an age of 25 can obtain a medical degree’ so that parallel college guys will be benefited.
And all these guys should work without any ethics too….HA HA !!!!!
Jai Azad Jai India Jai our Medical profession…
BRHC course good idea.
BRHC good idea..?
It’s a brain child of Ketan Bhai Desai..
Nothing but ‘New Dukandari’ in Medical field..!
I am prepared to suspend my disbelief to appreciate a very good indicate
i want to study B.R.M.S. WHAT IS THE QUALIFICATION FOR THAT COURSE.please reply above email id.my native place is virudhunagar.
MY NAME IS MANISH KHANDELWAL .I WANT FULL DETAIL ABOUT B.R.H.C
I AM STUDENT OF B.PHARMA. WHERE IS COLLEGE OF B.R.H.C I WANT DO THIS COURSE.
PLEASE GIVE ME DETAIL IN MY ADD.
OM SHIV MOTORS
GANGAPUR ROAD
LALSOT
DIST.DAUSA[RAJ]
I stumbled on this blog from delicious bookmark. Interesting topic with many great points. I wanted to say thank you for taking time to share this information. Michael from Michigan
Respected Health minister,
I humbly request to you consider AYUSH AND HOMEOPATHY doctors (BAMS/BHMS)for rural health care by training them in 1 yr pharmacology and modern medicine instead introducing a new course(BRMS)as BAMS/BHMS doctors doing excellent job in rural area. Going forward, MCI need to give serious thought to having uniform medical degree (MBBS) instead of BAMS/BHMS/MBBS/BSMS/BYNS etc.
Looking forward to good initiatives in medical education from you.
With thanks and regards
dr.sn.
Respected Health minister,
I humbly request to you consider AYUSH AND HOMEOPATHY doctors (BAMS/BHMS)for rural health care by training them in 1 yr pharmacology and modern medicine instead introducing a new course(BRMS)as BAMS/BHMS doctors doing excellent job in rural area.or give first preference to BAMS/BHMS doctors to do BRMS course,as we already trained in all subject of MBBS course except Allopathy phamacology .Going forward, MCI need to give serious thought to having uniform medical degree (MBBS) instead of BAMS/BHMS/MBBS/BSMS/BYNS etc.
Looking forward to good initiatives in medical education from you.
With thanks and regards
dr.sn.
It is better to train BSc Nurses and BPharm guys to become an MBBS doctor,rather than the Ayush/Homeopathy graduates, as they are totally related. The basics ,the concepts, and the mode of the medical studies and the subject they are studying are the same.Are these Ayush and Homeopathy doctors not confident of their branch of medicines? Or they feel disgraced to be an Ayush/Homeo Doctor? Do they feel that the Morden medicine is the best way to do business and make more money?These request to become an MBBS doctor seems to be a disgrace to the AYUSH/HOMEO Doctors.This means they beleive that the medicines in their own branch of medicines are not effective enough to cure the diseases.If they are confident enough,why do they request to become an MBBS doctor? why can’t they serve the people with their own branch of medicine?
//These request to become an MBBS doctor seems to be a disgrace to the AYUSH/HOMEO Doctors//
Yes
Exactly
sir BRHC course is good idea for rural area.sir after this course mostly health problem solved out in village &distt region.sir i want to full information @admission procedure @admission date plz inform me any information regarding this course through mail.
regards amarjit kumar singh
B.Sc. radiology
Dear friend
Please wait.MCI is going to restructure the MBBS curriculum in a short time and trying to make it equivalet of BRHC.
The five and half year course has been proposed to reduce to a 4+1 model(totally of five years) out of six months will be utilized for electives.i.e. electives will be different subjects and students can select it.So it that duration of six monts cannot be included in the core duration of the course.So in effect the MBBS is going to be a three and half year course,which is more or less equalent to BRHC.Instead of improving the course by adding new technologies and subjects and extending the duration of the course, the MCI is going to degrade the profession.They may be under the impression that the kind of MBBS(LE) model is sufficient for the Indian population.So wait till the new course is introduced.Then every thing will be easier.One can easily get in to MBBS itself.Also for PG admission,old MBBS will not be considered as the marks in the stepI and step II exit exams will be he criteria.The new MBBS graduates will be passing these exams during their curriculuam,according to MCI.But unfortunate old MBBS graduates will not be having such exams to be passed.Hence they will get limitted chances of try for the PG which is contradictory to the present PG admission regulations.This model of medical education system is called as “Rocket system” by the MCI.So after launching the old MBBS graduates in to the Bay of Bengal by this Rocket( as usual for our Space Research Organisation), every thing will be easy. So please wait.
//This model of medical education system is called as “Rocket system” by the MCI.So after launching the old MBBS graduates in to the Bay of Bengal by this Rocket( as usual for our Space Research Organisation), every thing will be easy//
🙂 🙂
ROFTL
You Rock Man !!
I am Honoured
Respected sir,
it is my sincere request to you that, the BRHC course will be very much popular within 10 years. so sir plz do take all the necessary steps to open BRHC course, being a rural people we can undestand the requirement of rural doctor.i have seen in the various state dispensary and others hospital, mbbs doctors are not willing to work, and PG are absolutely not. so sir go ahead for the 70% of rural population.
thanking you
Sudip Das
Medical Institute. Jorhat, Assam
Why you need BRHC
Why can’t you appoint better qualified staff nurses in that post
sir,
start a basic medicine course of 3 years,for gnm,paramedics,b.sc science
thanks
yours,
mahesh.
i mbbs doctor it is better idea for rural health care.and rural student.why objection other.if objection then why are not work in rural phc because less money.i appreciate to mci open medical school as soon as possible if not work in this way one time came very bad circumstenses in rural village so pls open medical school for rural health.in this way two profit developement of rural health less chance of death and decrease mortality rate…..patien esily come block to treatment and better for chola chap doctor many death occure to due to absence practinonner or educated doctor not medical faciality but our neta say alway alwas absence of facility but fcility available but doctor not availableif doctor not available then every thing waste like kite without thread so its a very good dicision to mci open district medical school for rural health
it is better idea but always delay if any thing better.it,s better for villager,s and it,s student which read this course….thank u sir
Dear dr.yoiraj deshmukh,
NATIONAL INTEGRATED MEDICAL ASSOCIATION
PATHARDI BRANCH –
You are trying to secure your future. Did you notice various requests down this page from AYUSH Doctors like you from other states? Why do you want to practice with modern medicine.. Why can’t it be with your own?
Why the allopathic doctors are not after the ayurveda? Is your branch is so inferior to modern medicines? Since I am unaware of the AYUSH system of medicines, your eagerness to continue with handling modern medicine as an AYUSH doctor make me suspect that. You must be aware that a BRHC doctor will be 1000 times more qualified than an AYUSH Doctor to handle modern medicine. In my opinion even a BSc nursing or a B Pharm graduate will be much more qualified than an AYUSH doctor to handle modern medicines, as it is their own branch of science. Hence there are enough people in our branch of medicine to handle modern medicine. We don’t need any alien coming to our field to handle modern medicine. You should be aware of the fact and depth of damage that might be caused to the health of common man by a person who is not qualified to handle modern medicine. Don’t always look at your own business and job security. Please consider the public health too. You are against the introduction of BRHC but those AYUSH doctors in other state where they are not allowed to practice modern medicine want to get in to BRHC…You may please go down this page to see various requests regarding the same. What does it mean?
Vtharavath
// Is your branch is so inferior to modern medicines? Since I am unaware of the AYUSH system of medicines, your eagerness to continue with handling modern medicine as an AYUSH doctor make me suspect that. v// I would like an AYUSH doctor who wants to prescribe allopathy medicine answer this
Dear Editor/Moderator,
TargetPG,
We have not taken admission to different AYUSH Courses like BAMS/BHMS/BUMS/BSMS out of love for Ayurveda,Homeopathy,Unani or Siddha.We missed admission to MBBS by fraction of points & we could not afford the hefty fees of Private Medical colleges.
Those students who are not worthy of becoming school teacher,got admissions to MBBS by paying huge donations & fees.& it is reality that these students are now specialists & super specialists in main stream medicine.Think about the harm to people’s health by these so called specialists produced through corrupt medical education system.
We are also tought modern medicine in our course. Considering these facts Maharastra Govt. has allowed us to use modern medicine. We are demading our legitimate right & our constitution assures equal opportunity to education, who is Dr.Vtharavath allowing or disallowing entry in modern medicine?
dr.yogiraj deshmukh,
NATIONAL INTEGRATED MEDICAL ASSOCIATION
PATHARDI BRANCH –
Dear Moderator,
TargetPG,
We have not taken admission to different AYUSH Courses like BAMS/BHMS/BUMS/BSMS out of love for Ayurveda,Homeopathy,Unani or Siddha.We missed admission to MBBS by fraction of points & we could not afford the hefty fees of Private Medical colleges.
Those students who are not worthy of becoming school teacher,got admissions to MBBS by paying huge donations & fees.& it is reality that these students are now specialists & super specialists in main stream medicine.Think about the harm to people’s health by these so called specialists produced through corrupt medical education system.
We are also tought modern medicine in our course. Considering these facts Maharastra Govt. has allowed us to use modern medicine. We are demading our legitimate right & our constitution assures equal opportunity to education, who is Dr.Vtharavath allowing or disallowing entry in modern medicine?
dr.yogiraj deshmukh,
NATIONAL INTEGRATED MEDICAL ASSOCIATION,
-PATHARDI BRANCH
Dear Editor/Moderator,
TargetPG,
We have not taken admission to different AYUSH Courses like BAMS/BHMS/BUMS/BSMS out of love for Ayurveda,Homeopathy,Unani or Siddha.We missed admission to MBBS by fraction of points & we could not afford the hefty fees of Private Medical colleges.
Those students who are not worthy of becoming school teacher,got admissions to MBBS by paying huge donations & fees.& it is reality that these students are now specialists & super specialists in main stream medicine.Think about the harm to people’s health by these so called specialists produced through corrupt medical education system.
We are also tought modern medicine in our course. Considering these facts Maharastra Govt. has allowed us to use modern medicine. We are demading our legitimate right & our constitution assures equal opportunity to education, who is Dr.Vtharavath allowing or disallowing entry in modern medicine?
dr.yoiraj deshmukh,
NATIONAL INTEGRATED MEDICAL ASSOCIATION
PATHARDI BRANCH –
Dear dr.yogiraj deshmukh
You have mentioned in your comment that
//who is Dr.Vtharavath allowing or disallowing entry in modern medicine?//
I will definitely shoot down the alien try to attack our kingdom….
Vtharavath
Dear Dr. Vtharavath
//I will definitely shoot down the alien try to attack our kingdom….//
The language suits the terrorist and not the doctor.
And remember ‘any field of Knowledge is never anyone’s Kingdom’
Are you going to create new age ‘CHATURVARNA’ system..?
Dear Editor/Moderator,
TargetPG,
We have not taken admission to different AYUSH Courses like BAMS/BHMS/BUMS/BSMS out of love for Ayurveda,Homeopathy,Unani or Siddha.We missed admission to MBBS by fraction of points & we could not afford the hefty fees of Private Medical colleges.
Those students who are not worthy of becoming school teacher,got admissions to MBBS by paying huge donations & fees.& it is reality that these students are now specialists & super specialists in main stream medicine.Think about the harm to people’s health by these so called specialists produced through corrupt medical education system.
We are also tought modern medicine in our course. Considering these facts Maharastra Govt. has allowed us to use modern medicine. We are demading our legitimate right & our constitution assures equal opportunity to education, who is Dr.Vtharavath allowing or disallowing entry in modern medicine?
dr.yoiraj deshmukh,
NATIONAL INTEGRATED MEDICAL ASSOCIATION
PATHARDI BRANCH –
Dear Editor/Moderator,
TargetPG,
We have not taken admission to different AYUSH Courses like BAMS/BHMS/BUMS/BSMS out of love for Ayurveda,Homeopathy,Unani or Siddha.We missed admission to MBBS by fraction of points & we could not afford the hefty fees of Private Medical colleges.
Those students who are not worthy of becoming school teacher,got admissions to MBBS by paying huge donations & fees.& it is reality that these students are now specialists & super specialists in main stream medicine.Think about the harm to people’s health by these so called specialists produced through corrupt medical education system.
We are also tought modern medicine in our course. Considering these facts Maharastra Govt. has allowed us to use modern medicine. We are demading our legitimate right & our constitution assures equal opportunity to education, who is Dr.Vtharavath allowing or disallowing entry in modern medicine?
dr.yogiraj deshmukh,
NATIONAL INTEGRATED MEDICAL ASSOCIATION,
PATHARDI BRANCH
Are you saying that the drugs in your system of Medicine are inefficient and useless and you have to depend only on allopathic drugs for management
Dear Editor/Moderator TargetPG,
Please read my prior posts carefully, you will find the answer to your queries.
Thanx with Regards..
dr.yogiraj deshmukh,
NATIONAL INTEGRATED MEDICAL ASSOCIATION,
PATHARDI BRANCH
Dear dr.yogiraj deshmukh
You have mentioned in your cmment that
//who is Dr.Vtharavath allowing or disallowing entry in modern medicine?//
I will definitely shoot down the alien try to attack our kingdom….
Vtharavath
Dear Dr. Vtharavath
//I will definitely shoot down the alien try to attack our kingdom….//
The language suits the terrorist and not the doctor.
And remember ‘any field of Knowledge is never anyone’s Kingdom’
Are you going to creat new ‘CHATURVARNA’ system..?
Dear dr.yogiraj deshmukh
You have mentioned in your comment that
//who is Dr.Vtharavath allowing or disallowing entry in modern medicine?//
I will definitely shoot down the alien trying to attack our kingdom….
Vtharavath
Dear Dr. Vtharavath
//I will definitely shoot down the alien try to attack our kingdom….//
The language suits the terrorist and not the doctor.
And remember ‘any field of Knowledge is never anyone’s Kingdom’
Are you going to create new ‘CHATURVARNA’ system..?
Dear Author
I believe my comment suits that of a JAWAN rather than that of a terrorist….
I regret to tell you that you have not gone in to the real meaning of my comment. You have taken the superficial word meaning alone…..
It was the answer for his reference about me. I believe that I have a moral responsibility to respond against any kind of degrading interference in my professional system. Don’t you???
Regards
Vtharavath
Dear Dr.Vtharavath,
You are feeling insecure by the entry of AYUSH Doctors in Main Stream Medicine.
& to push your point you are using pseudo philosophy of moral responsibility.
How you dare to say that our entry would be “degrading interference”..?
Do you consider that ‘Talent’ is only with you..?
Respected sir; its a sutable course to give more importance to the health of rural people in india. But in case of selection of candidate from paramedical courses such as BSC NSG wil help to make a good qualifed profesonals.becoz in india the sylabus of bsc nsg is almost similar as mbbs and the clinical traing are almost similar.but in nsg more emphasis is given to community health nsg instd of medicine. so the selection of candidate from nsg is easy to make a good qualifd profsnal with in 3_1/2 yrs. in kerala when it start?
Dear Mr. dr.yogiraj deshmukh
I am not against you entering in to the Modern medicine. You said you have lost the MBBS seat by fraction of points. You can very well write the entrance examination for MBBS course once again after a good coaching. Don’t try to be a half baked doctor by entering into a short, unimplemented medical course and become a modern medical practitioner. Try to be a good MBBS graduate. Whole hearted welcome to the field of modern medicine.
You know after the implementation of Clinical Establishment Act 2010 you will never be able to practice cross ‘Pathy’ system of medicines. So it is safe to stick onto one system of medicine.
Regards
Vtharavath
Dear Dr.Vtharavath
You might be junior to me. When I passed my H.S.C. exam (1989),the admission to Medical Courses were given on the basis of marks obtained in the PCB (Physics,Chemistry and Biology) group.At that time there was not entrance examination.(in Maharashtra Entrance Examinations started in 1993 or 94).And there was no chance to reappear for HSC exam.
Some of my rich friends who have less marks than me in PCB group took admissions to Private MBBS by paying huge donations and fees.I could not afford even fees of Private MBBS college, and no chance to appear for the HSC, I have only option available to take admission to BAMS.
Dear Sir
The curiosity expressed by you to enter into the system of modern medicine clearly shows the insecurity felt by you in practicing your own system of medicine.
I already told that you can be an MBBS doctor. No one prevent you from being a doctor in modern medicine. But there is a specified method of selection procedures to select only ‘good ones’ for the profession. We all have undergone such course of selection procedures and proven ourselves that we are qualified to peruse the MBBS course. You may show your talent by succeeding through stipulated selection procedures for MBBS course and not through a short cut method.
It is true that inefficient people always prefer short cut path.
Vtharavath
I object your statement that only ‘good ones’ are selected.
Those who are not worthy of becoming Primary School Teacher have entered the field of Modern Medicine.
Ketan Desai scam have exposed all this facts.
Why you are not speaking on this..?
Why are you not speaking on “Privatization of Medical Education” which have spoiled the Medical Education System..?
You have not answered my question in previous post
//Think about the harm to people’s health by these so called specialists produced through corrupt medical education system//
Dear Dr.Vtharavath
I object your statement that only ‘good ones’ are selected.
Those who are not worthy of becoming Primary School Teacher have entered the field of Modern Medicine.
Ketan Desai scam have exposed all this facts.
Why you are not speaking on this..?
Why are you not speaking on “Privatization of Medical Education” which have spoiled the Medical Education System..?
You have not answered my question in previous post
//Think about the harm to people’s health by these so called specialists produced through corrupt medical education system//
with regards..
Dear Dr.Vtharavath
I object your statement that only ‘good ones’ are selected.
Those who are not worthy of becoming Primary School Teacher have entered the field of Modern Medicine.
Ketan Desai scam have exposed all this facts.
Why you are not speaking on this..?
Why are you not speaking on “Privatization of Medical Education” which have spoiled the Medical Education System..?
You have not answered my question in previous post
//Think about the harm to people’s health by these so called specialists produced through corrupt medical education system//
with regards..
dr.yogiraj deshmukh,
NATIONAL INTEGRATED MEDICAL ASSOCIATION,
PATHARDI BRANCH
Respected higher authorities,
Do you think about the unemployment of India? lacks of traditional doctors are there who are practicing in rural areas along with the modern system of medicine. If BRMS course will start then those of traditional doctor will be unemployed and every one know what would be the problem of unemployment in India. why not any training programme for the traditional doctors on allopathy to extend their knowledge to solve the problem. And on the other hand do you think that a person after getting BRMS, he will be helpful for rural poor? No— after some days he will go for better income to make Bungalows, Cars etc. It is just dreaming of some authorities or a way to earn some money through this system only. By this system some authority will earn huge amount of bank balance only.
Dear BISESWAR DEBNATH
From your mail:
//And on the other hand do you think that a person after getting BRMS, he will be helpful for rural poor? No— after some days he will go for better income to make Bungalows, Cars etc. //
This is applicable to you also…
Do you know any thing about Clinical Establishment Act 2010?
As per the Act even a single doctor clinic should be registered with a controlling council who sets standards for the private practice by all doctors including you.Registration is strictly based on ‘PATHYs’.So cross “pathy”treatment will not be possible.Also the Govt is going to fix the consultation feeses and charges for other procedures.You have to submit the copy of all your prescription for ‘AUDITING’ every three months.And lots of other restrictions too.All these are aplicable to every health professionals in any system of medicines including a health gymnasium.Also a doctor regardless of ‘pathys’ must attend an emergency patient at any time at any cost without looking his pocket and should stabilize the patient before transfering to an higher center.The responsibility of transfering the patient without causing him any problem is the responsibility of the doctor who refer the patient,as per the Act.By this Act,a severe pain is also specified as an Emergency.This Act has been passed by Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha.So don’t expect that entering in the feild of modern medicine will be an easy and profitable business.
Hence instead of trying to enter in to the feild of mordern medicine in a short cut method please direct your struggle towards opposing the CE Act.Otherwise you will not be even able to survive in your own system of medicine after the implementation of the CE Act.This Act will discourage the private practice by doctors in any system of medicines. Most of the doctors will be unemployed after this.If an allopathy doctor becomes unemployed by this Act,think about your situation ! ! ! ! ! ! HA….HA….HA
I am not jocking…It is the real situation that is going to come within a short time.Please take it as a serious matter.
Regards
Vtharavath
Dear BISESWAR DEBNATH and dr.yoiraj deshmukh
One more thing to convey you…
Presently Health is purely a state subject and the center has no power to make laws in the state subject (except under the provision 249,250 and 252 of the constitution).Hence the center has requested all state Govt to adopt this Act pursuing clause (1) of Article 252 of the constitution which will transfer the power of the state in making laws and rule on this subject to the center. Thereafter you will have to approach the central Govt for the solution or any bargain of rights on any issues related to your profession. You can very well think of the feasibility of doing this. After the implementation of this act you will not be able to solve your regional problems regarding your profession. It is not compulsory that this Act should be adopted by all the states. But all states are in the process of adopting it. This is for your kind information.
If you feel this is a serious issue affecting your profession…then accept it…otherwise you have it…
Regards
Vtharavath
Dear BISESWAR DEBNATH and dr.yogiraj deshmukh
One more thing to convey you…
Presently Health is purely a state subject and the center has no power to make laws in the state subject (except under the provision 249,250 and 252 of the constitution).Hence the center has requested all state Govt to adopt this Act pursuing clause (1) of Article 252 of the constitution which will transfer the power of the state in making laws and rule on this subject to the center. Thereafter you will have to approach the central Govt for the solution or any bargain of rights on any issues related to your profession. You can very well think of the feasibility of doing this. After the implementation of this act you will not be able to solve your regional problems regarding your profession. It is not compulsory to adopt this Act by the states. But all states are in the process of adopting it. This is for your kind information.
If you feel this is a serious issue affecting your profession…then accept it…otherwise you have it…
Regards
Vtharavath
The discussion is on BRMS/BRHC Course & not on the Clinical Establishment Act.
I expect comments on Privatization of Medical Education & overall Corrupt Medical Education System of India.
with regards
dr.suresh avhad
Dear Author
I just to want to convey them that it is better to stick on to their own system of medicine as the implementation of CE Act will prevent the cross ‘Pathy’ method of treatments, what they are arguing for now.For that purpose I have given few points regarding the CE Act.
Regards
Vtharavath
AYUSH DOCTORS should be considered as victims of Corrupt & illogical Medical Education System of India & should be given fair opportunity to prove themselves.
We demand to enroll AYUSH DOCTORS in main stream medicine by providing us refreshing course through CME Centers at District & Tehsil level.The CME Centers should be provided with latest technology like video conferencing. Our suggested module will also help in strengthening the infrastructure of Health Care System.& the expenditure on this project will be far less than the expenditure on proposed course
Sir,
only a mere coaching or CME in modern medicine will not make any one talented for the practice in modern medicine. If it is so every body would have gone for practicing modern medicine. Ultimately a health YOGA practitioner also can have a claim like the one you have now.
There are many paramedical courses in modern medical field who are studying much more than an AYUSH about the modern medical practice. It is very easy for them to get trained in the system of modern medicines than any one else through a CME or refreshing course
Vtharavath
Dear Sir,
Please keep in mind that prescribing medicines alone is not the principal function of a modern medical practitioner. It is only part of his job.
Vtharavath
Dear Sir,
One more thing to add…
As you are well aware that the fundamental principles of Modern medicine and the AYUSH are entirely different, a superficial coaching is not at all sufficient enough to become a talented modern medical practitioner. The coaching should be started from the basics itself. Otherwise it will result in to the production of half-baked doctors.
Vtharavath
Dear Dr.Vtharavath
I object your statement that only ‘good ones’ are selected.
Those who are not worthy of becoming Primary School Teacher have entered the field of Modern Medicine.
Ketan Desai scam have exposed all this facts.
Why you are not speaking on this..?
Why are you not speaking on “Privatization of Medical Education” which have spoiled the Medical Education System..?
You have not answered my question in previous post
//Think about the harm to people’s health by these so called specialists produced through corrupt medical education system//
regards..
dr.yogiraj deshmukh,
NATIONAL INTEGRATED MEDICAL ASSOCIATION,
PATHARDI BRANCH
Dear Sir
I am not against privatization of medical education as long as the universities are conducting the MBBS medical graduate examination as per the guide line o MCI to test whether the student is qualified enough to practice modern medicine or not. Govt cannot help every Indian student who is willing to be a doctor in modern medicine by spending from the treasury.
Don’t take the word ‘good ones’ in any other sense. There is a procedure for selection in to the MBBS courses. By this selection procedure the ability and intellectual capacity of the student is tested. This procedure of selection is under revision to accommodate testing of further capabilities of the student for his attitude and taste towards the subject. A student who fulfils these criteria is termed as ‘good ones’. We have come across the present system of testing procedures and got the admission to MMBS course.
If the student has succeeded through the selection procedure, he will not find difficulty in passing the MBBS examinations conducted by the universities and he will be successful in his life as a modern medical practitioner. I want to convey you that to be a modern medicine practitioner one should at least pass the MBBS university examinations. If a student is admitted to MBBS course through merit doesn’t mean that he is a doctor. But he has to pass the MBBS university examination. All the practitioners in the modern medicine have passed their MBBS university examination and proved that they are qualified. But in your case it is not. It is the testing of the university whether the student is having enough knowledge to practice modern medicine after his graduation as an MBBS doctor. In your case this testing has not been done by any of the university and you are not proved in any way that you are qualified to practice modern medicine. I have already told you for example: Ayurveda is based on the system of kapha, pitha, and Rasa, if I am right .But this concept is not at all there in modern medicines. Our system is entirely different.
Vharavath
Adding to the above…
A person who is not worthy enough to be primary school teacher will never be a successful modern medical practitioner. If he is, he might have lost his seat in the selection procedure due to some other reason. It doesn’t mean that he is an unworthy person. Such people, spending their own money and become a doctor will not be a crime. If an unworthy person becomes a doctor you must question the system of examination of that particular university. You cannot blame the policy of privatization of medical education.
Vtharavath
Dear dr.santosh tupere
The declared merit seats for MBBS is not sold under any circumstances. Also certain new self finance medical colleges provide some percentage of their medical seats for merit students, which increase the opportunity of a merit student to get admitted to MBBS course. So the existence of private medical colleges increases the opportunity of merit students. But you have to see the other side of the coin. To maintain and run private medical colleges, the govt is not providing any money or facilities to them. Private colleges have to make this money from either the fees or by selling the seats. What ever the case may be, the govt cannot acquire the seats available with private medical colleges for the merit students. These seats are extra to the merit seats available.If we say no to these seats, the only result is that these seats will no more be available to either poor merit student or to the rich student who purchases seats by paying money. Having money is not any ones fault. Who ever has money let them pay and get admission to MBBS? Why should we object it? You are never going to get those seats under merit quota .Then why?
I Underline my statement that only those students having enough talent, intelligence, ability and attitude can become a successful doctor in modern medicine and vice versa.
If we don’t allow him to study in India he may go abroad and study medicine. The money he would spend will be lost to our country.
Nowadays studying MBBS abroad is much cheaper than studying that in India.
Keep one thing in mind that if we oppose the admission to MBBS seat in the market place, don’t expect that it will add on to the merit seat and the opportunity of the merit student will increase. Never, ever you get those seats under merit. Either the private colleges will be closed or these seats will not be available for the purchase. So what is the advantage you are getting by opposing the admission to these market available seats? Govt cannot purchase these seats and give to the merit students.
One should insist the Govt to increase the merit seats in the Govt colleges and to increase the standards of medical education in India and tighten the structure and method of conduction of university examinations etc
One more point to add…Who ever pay money and get admission to MBBS course will have to pass the University examination which will make him qualified for practicing as a doctor in modern medicine. By paying money for the admission doesn’t award him MBBS Degree.
Vtharavath
Dear dr.santosh tupere
I am not defending any one.. I am telling the truth…
But my question is why every one is after modern medicine?.
Why can’t they be satisfied with their own system of medicines?
What is the actual motto behind this eagerness shown to be a practitioner in modern medicine?
Why this discussion at all?
It is the fact that if one is a skilled and efficient doctor he will definitely be satisfied with his system of medicine what ever it may be the system and will be able to perform well in his system of medicine.
If he is efficient enough to treat the patients properly and provide quality of service to the patients approaches him he will get enough patients and he will be very satisfied with his system of medicine is n’t it?
You can see there are many AYUSH doctors who performs more than a modern medical practitioner and are getting more patients than him.. In our state one can see many such AYUSH doctors…Minting money! ! ! ! !
First of all try to be a skilled and efficient doctor regardless of the system of medicines. Then no one will have this kind of arguments.
Quality will bring every thing……….When one is not skilled enough to maintain the quality then all kinds of malpractice and all such arguments will arise….
Regards
Vtharavath
Dear Vtharavath
You may have read British Medical Association’s recent statement about Homeopathy.
I will not elaborate it but only say that Modern Medicine is the only scientific system of Medicine and that’s we are after entering main stream of Modern Medicine.
We have learned Modern Medicine, It is in the syllabus of CCIM.
We are efficiently & successfully practicing Modern Medicine since last 15 years.
We are EKLAVYA’s of Modern Medicine. And Govt. is going to cut our THUMB by starting this BRMS/BRHC Course.
But we will not let hit happen..!
Thanx with Regards..
Dear Dr.santosh tupere
As you said Modern Medicine is the only scientific system of Medicine and that’s why you are after entering main stream of Modern Medicine. Then my suggestion is that all the system of medicines except modern medicine in India should be banned. Otherwise this will be a short cut to enter in to the modern medical field for those who have failed earlier to get in to this field. Also the candidate trying to get in to modern medical field through the normal course of selection for admission to MBBS will be fooled or tricked by those enter in to field of modern medicine after getting in to AYUSH system of medicines. It then becomes a short cut method to enter in to the modern medical field. So all the students, who are trying to get in to modern medical field through proper method of selection procedure will become fools.
Vtharavath
Dear Vtharavath
You may have read British Medical Association’s recent statement about Homeopathy.
I will not elaborate it but only say that Modern Medicine is the only scientific system of Medicine and that’s why we are after entering main stream of Modern Medicine.
We have learned Modern Medicine,It is in the syllabus of CCIM.
We are efficiently and successfully practicing Modern Medicine since last 15 years.
We are EKLAVYA’s of Modern Medicine. And Govt. is going to cut off our THUMB by starting this BRMS/BRHC Course.
But we will not let hit happen..!
Thanx with Regards..
Dear Dr. santosh tupere
Please read the following which I have received in my mail inbox from [email protected]
How will the CEA affect non-allopathic practitioners?
QUESTION—What will be the effect of the CEA, 2010, on other than allopathic practitioners?
ANSWER—The exact effect will depend upon what rules are framed under the Clinical Establishments Act, 2010. The following are likely:
1—Since all establishments offering treatment through non-allopathic systems, including solo practitioners, may have to be registered on the basis of documented qualifications, absolute quackery (practice by unqualified persons) may be markedly curbed.
2—All clinical establishments may have to declare which “pathy” they follow. Inter-mixing it with another pathy may be curbed. Thus cross-pathy quackery (practice of a system of medicine in which the practitioner is not qualified / registered) may be curbed.
3—The practice of the so called alternative systems of medicine (other than Ayurveda, Yunani, Yoga, Naturopathy, Siddha, Homeopathy), which are not recognised systems, may be banned. These include: Magneto-therapy, Aromatherapy, Colour-therapy; Electrotherapy, Acupressure therapy etc. Even the practice of acupuncture by persons not having an MBBS degree may be banned.
—M C Gupta
MBBS & MD (Medicine), AIIMS; MPH (San Carlos Univ.)
LL.B. (Delhi); LL.M. (Kurukshetra)
Post-Doctoral Fellow (United Nations Univ.)
Fellow: National Foundation of Clinical Forensic Medicine
Member, Indian Law Institute
Member, Supreme Court Bar Association
Awardee: National Citizen Award, 1991
Awardee: Annual Oration Award 2011, Indian Association of Medico-legal Experts
Ex-Additional Professor, AIIMS
Ex-Professor and Dean, NIHFW
Practicing advocate, (Delhi Bar Council no. 857/2001)
[email protected]
http://www.writing.com/authors/mcgupta44
Also you may be aware of the latest judgment from the Apex court preventing the practice of cross pathy treatments. The judgment clearly says that whoever practices the medical system in which he is not qualified is to be considered as quacks and necessary action should be initiated against such persons.
In such cases you are definitely going to loose your THUMB.
Vtharavath
Adding to the above
This is going to be the dangerous situation for you than the BRHC course which is not so far started and the IMA is strongly opposing the same. Hence don’t expect that BRHC course will be started….But be careful about the points which I have mentioned above…
Vtharavath
Dear Dr.Vtharavath
First off all I will request you to carefully read all posts from the beginning.
We have already said in our prior posts what Dr.M.C.Gupta is saying.
Don’t frighten us about CEA.
No one can stop us from practicing Modern Medicine because we have enough knowledge of it and we are ready to prove it any time.
Thanx with Regards..
dr.yogiraj deshmukh,
NATIONAL INTEGRATED MEDICAL ASSOCIATION,
PATHARDI BRANCH
Dear Dr.Yogiraj Deshmukh,
I am afraid that so far you have not gone into the depth of CEA 2010.Hence you have made this comment. I am telling you the fact. I am not threatening you by telling about CEA. You won’t be able to prevent the implementation of CEA 2010 if the govt intends to do so. Your statement in this blog is a contempt of court as there is a judgment from our honorable supreme court against those who are practicing any system of medicine without approved qualification and in the statement your are challenging this court order. At present the order from the apex court is in force.
The next is CEA which will be implemented soon.
Your statement shows that you are continuing with quackery by practicing an unauthorized system of medicine by you. It is illegal. If anyone questions your action in the court, you will be punished. Also, if any patient file a case against you in the court for medical malpractice and/or medical negligence, you will not be having any legal background to stand against them and you will have to pay the fine.
Regards
Vtharavath
Dear Dr.Vtharavath
You are biased against the 7.5 lakh AYUSH practitioners mostly practicing in Rural India.
Up to yet Health is a State subject.BAMS practitioners in Maharashtra are allowed to practice modern medicine under Drugs & Cosmetic Act (For details visit :http://nimaptd.webs.com/apps/forums/topics/show/3183009-legal-discussion-on-our-right-to-practise-modern-medicine-)
For your information Maharashtra Minister for Medical Education is seriously thinking on starting refreshing course in Modern Medicine for our BHMS colleagues.
Pls. provide me the Supreme Court order you are talking about.
We are fighting for our legitimate rights.
And in my view my previous post makes no Contempt of Court, and no intentions to do so.
Thanx with Regards..
dr.yogiraj deshmukh,
NATIONAL INTEGRATED MEDICAL ASSOCIATION,
PATHARDI BRANCH
//We are fighting for our legitimate rights.//
What is your legitimate right— Practicing in the field in which you don’t have any qualification???? India being a democratic country, the collective bargainers some times may be able to force the govt to make illegal orders. The role of the Apex court is to put control on such illegal act and save the nation from the hands of such ill motivated null heads.
You are aware that, you are holding a qualification in AYUSH system. For living purpose one can make such arguments. Similar orders are made by Govt of Tamilnadu few years back which had been stayed by the High court of Tamilnadu. If that order was correct Honble High court would not have stayed the order of the TN GOVT.
Finally, all these amounts to the intellectual level of the society in which you live.
Have you not heard of the word ‘Contempt of Court’? When you have it, then you will come to know about it….
Vtharavath
//We are fighting for our legitimate rights.//
What is your legitimate right— Practicing in the field in which you don’t have any qualification???? India being a democratic country, the collective bargainers some times may be able to force the govt to make illegal orders. The role of the Apex court is to put control on such illegal act and save the nation from the hands of such ill motivated null heads.
You are aware that, you are holding a qualification in AYUSH system. For living purpose one can make such arguments. Similar orders are made by Govt of Tamilnadu few years back which had been stayed by the High court of Tamilnadu. If that order was correct Honble High court would not have stayed the order of the TN GOVT.
Finally, all these amounts to the intellectual level of the society in which you live.
Have you not heard of the word ‘Contempt of Court’? When you have it, then you will come to know about it….
Vtharavath
Dear Dr.Yogiraj Deshmukh
You are claming that the Govt of Maharashtra has permitted you to practice modern medicine by order. But your claim is wrong. No such order is issued by Govt of Maharashtra in November 1992.You are arguing on a non-existing order.
You may please go through the entire archive of GR of State of Maharashtra so far.
Please see the link below. If you find one resolution in favor of your argument you may please intimate me.
http://maharashtra.gov.in/english/gr/index.php?page=740
Regards
Vtharavath
Dear Dr.Vtharavath
pls don’t make comments on superficial knowledge..
Here is notification in support of my claim..
GOVERNMENT NOTIFICATION
Ministry of Health and Family Planning
(Department of Health)
Dated 23rd Feb.1999
Medical Education & Drugs Department,
Mantralaya, Mumbai 400032.
Drugs & Cosmetics
Rules, 1945
ORDER
No. CIM 1099/122/CR 25/99/Act-In pursuance the provisional sub-clause (iii) clause (ee) of rule 2 of the Drugs and Cosmetics Rules, 1945 and in suppression of the Government, Order, Urban Development and Public Health Department, No. DRG1160/699 19-8.Dated the 5th June, 1965 the Government of Maharashtra hereby declares the person holding the qualifications fro the time being mentioned in parts A,A-1,B and D of the Schedule appended to the Maharashtra Medical Practitioners Act, 1961 (Mah.X XVII of 1961), and registered in the register maintained under that Act, although being person not falling within sub-clause (i) or sub-clause (ii) of clause (ee) of the said rule 2, to be person practicing the modern scientific system of medicine for the purpose of the Drugs and Cosmetics Act, 1940 (23 of 1940).
By Order and in the name of
the Governor of Maharashtra
L.G.KUMARE
Deputy Secretary to Government
meanwhile,
You have not provided me The SC Judgment you was talking about…
Dear Dr.Yogiraj Deshmukh
Here is the one…See the link….I will give you the other after I get it…
http://www.ccimindia.org/downloads/6%20SC%20Judgment%2008.10.pdf
See the related links of allopathy practice by a non-allopath
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2011-04-11/nagpur/29405902_1_allopathy-ayurveda-doctors-practise
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2010-10-15/kanpur/28237085_1_quackery-rohini-claims
Vtharavath
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2003-05-19/delhi/27264511_1_quackery-fake-degrees-doctor
Meanwhile,
You have not yet provided me The SC Judgment you was talking about…
And one more request to you don’t use the heavy words like ‘Contempt of Court’ just to impress the people and to show your intellect.
I request you to provide the judgment and the actual citations from the judgment to support your claim.
We can discuss it in details.
Dear Dr.Yogiraj Deshmukh
All your arguments will be in vain after the CEA gets implemented…..Till then you carry on….
Regards
Vtharavath
Dear Dr.Vtharavath
you have not provided me the citations of The Supreme Court judgment.
I know the correct meaning of the term ‘Contempt of Court’
You are using it to misguide the people.
Don’t make vague statements.
I will again repeat
“No one can stop us from practicing Modern Medicine because we have enough knowledge of it.
AND WE ARE READY TO PROVE IT ANY TIME.”
Thanx with Regards..
dr.yogiraj deshmukh,
NATIONAL INTEGRATED MEDICAL ASSOCIATION,
PATHARDI BRANCH
Any way ,since you are discusing on the same court order I think I need not send you the judgment..But you can see the opinion of Dr.M.C.Gupta about the link send by you:
“The link does not amount to anything. Dr. Shenoy has made wrong conclusions in his article. The article has been correctly criticised by Punjab medical Association. Dr. Shenoy has failed to respond to the valid criticism.
The conclusion is that the Poonam Verma judgment still holds true. Dr. Shenoy needs to revise his thinking.
M C Gupta, LLM
Advocate
Member, Supreme Court Bar Association”
Any way I am planning to approch the Apex court for a clarification on the said order.
Regards
Vtharavath
Dear Dr.Vtharavath
M.C.GUPTA is a lawyer and not Supreme Court.
There might be difference of opinion between two lawyers.
We think that Dr.Gopinath Shenoy is right & he has promptly answered the objections of Punjab IMA
Dear Dr.
See this too
http://www.doctorsgallery.com/?p=295
Vtharavath
Dear
One more…understand clearly
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2011-04-11/nagpur/29405902_1_allopathy-ayurveda-doctors-practise
Vtharavath
Dear
You might be aware of the fact that ‘News paper reports are not considered as proof’.
You are diverting the discussion.
You have not provided The SC Judgment you was talking about.
Pls be on point,don’t make comments without proper proof.
Thanx with Regards..
dr.yogiraj deshmukh,
NATIONAL INTEGRATED MEDICAL ASSOCIATION,
PATHARDI BRANCH
Pls read this mail sent by
Dr.Ravindra Mirgane,
Member,
Maharashtara Council Of Indian Medicine
respected yogiraj deshmukh
we all are registered medical practtitioners of Indian
medicine [ISM DOCTORS]. we all are registered under maharashtra
medical practitioners act 1961 [MMP ACT 1961] also corelated with
section 17 of The Indian medicine central council act 1970 [act no 48
of 1970] ( IMCC act 1970) in part one of the register.
1) According to MMP ACT 1961 section 2(fa) says that
indian medicine means astang ayurveda or siddha or unani whether
supplimented or not by such modern advances as the central council
from time to time by notification may declare under clause (e) of
section 2 of the IMCC ACT 1970
Also section 25(1) says that a legally qualified
medical practitioner under MMP ACT 1961,having right to practice any
system of medicine shall,in all acts of the state legislature and in
all central acts i.e.IMCC ACT 1970.
Also section 33(1)(i) says that the register
mentiontioned under MMP ACT 1961,registered practitioners shall
practice any system of medicine in the state.
2) IMCC ACT 1970,in which all practitioners of ISM are
registered are having right and privilege of practicing any system of
medicine have been protected under section 17(3)(b) of IMCC ACT 1970.
3) According to the state GAZZETE published by GOVT OF
MAHARASHTRA dated 25/11/1992 it is clearely mentioned that “the govt
of maharashtra here by directs that the ayurvedic practitioners
enrolled on the state register under MMP ACT1961 holding qualification
specified in part A,B & A-1 of the shedule appended in the said act
shall be eligible to practice the modern system of medicine which is
known as allopathic system of medicine to the extent of the training
they received in that system.
4) when the food and drug commissioner issued a
missguiding circular dated 18/12/1996 directing to all the chemists in
maharashtra not to honour the prescriptions of ISM doctors if it
contains allopathic medicine,our organisation filed awrit petition in
honourable HIGH COURT mumbai bench,the honourable HIGH court Mumbai
quashed the said circular & after that department of medical
education & drug passed a GOVT. NOTIFICATION order dated 23/02/1999
that the practitioners registerd under MMP ACT 1961 in part A,A-1,B&D
can practice modern scientific system of medicine for the purpose of
the drug & cosmetic act 1940 (23 of 1940).
5) In the letter issued by under secretary b.h.tayade
dated 28/05/2007 under RIGHT TO INFORMATION ACT it is clearly informed
that the ayurvedic practitioners can practice allopathic system of
medicine.
6)according to the CCIM resolution dated 30/08/1996
“institutionally qualified practitioners of ISM & those covered under
IMCC ACT 1970 are eligible to practice Indian system of medicine &
modern medicine which is known as allopathic medicine including
surgery, gynacology& obstetrics based on their training &
teaching.this training & teaching is included in the syllabus of CCIM.
The meaning of the word modern advances means advances made in various
branches of modern scientific medicine,clinical,non-clinical &
bio-sciences.
7) According to the CCIM notification dated 30/10/1996
it is clearly mentioned that,”The right of practitioners of ISM
doctors to practice modern scientific system of medicine (Allopathic
medicine) are protected under section 17(3)(b) of Indian medicine
central council act 1970.
Thus from all above evidences it is absolutely clear
that ISM doctors are eligible to practice modern medicine which is
known as allopathic medicine.
so we all are INTEGRATED practitioners and can use
AYURVEDA as well as ALLOPATHY.It is our right and we are not doing cross
pathy practice.
RAVINDRA ANIRUDHA MIRGANE.
Member, Maharashtra Council Of Indian Medicine
Dear dr.Yogi raj deshmukh
I have only one question to you
Have you got registered under “Part A” of Mosern medicine in the state medical register?
Or under which schedule you have been registered in the state medical register?
vtharavath
Dr. Deshmukh wrote–
BAMS practitioners are allowed to practice modern medicine under Drugs &Cosmetics Act 1945 Sec 2ee,in Maharashtra.
COMMENT–This is wrong in terms of the SC judgment:
DR. MUKHTIAR CHAND & ORS. Vs. STATE OF PUNJAB & ORS., DATE OF JUDGMENT: 08/10/1998, K.T.THOMAS, SYED SHAH MOHAMMED QUADRI
http://www.ccimindia.org/downloads/6%20SC%20Judgment%2008.10.pdf
M C Gupta
Respected Sir,
I regret to say that you that you interpreted the SC judgment on DR. MUKHTIAR CHAND & ORS. Vs. STATE OF PUNJAB & ORS., to benefit your side.
I request you to read the following answer given by Dr.Anbumani Ramadoss in Loksabha..
GOVERNMENT OF INDIA,
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND FAMILY WELFARE,
LOKSABHA,UNSTARRED QUESTION,
TO BE ANSWERED ON 24/08/2005
PERMISSION TO BAMS GRADUATES TO PRACTICE MODERN MEDICINE
4235 SHRI.S.MALLIKARJUNIAH
HANSRAJ GANGARAM AHIR
Will The Minister HEALTH AND FAMILY WELFARE be pleased to state :-
(a)Whether the Bachelor of Ayurvedic and Medicine Services (BAMS),Integrated Medical Graduates are being allowed to practice Modern System of Medicine in the country;
(b)If so details thereof;
(c) If not the reasons thereof; and
(d) The time by when it is likely to be considered by the Governmnt.
ANSWER
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND FAMILY WELFARE (DR. ANMBUMANI RAMADOSS)
(a)to (d) This matter was examined by Hon’ble Supreme Court in the case of Dr.Mukhtiar Chand and Ors. Vs. the Stae of Punjab, civil appeal No.89 of 1987.Hon’ble Supreme Court has held that harmonious reading of section 15 of Indian Medical Council Act 1956 and section 17 of Indian Medicine Cental Council (IMCC) Act leads to the conclusion that there is no scope for a person enrolled on the State Register of Indian Medicine or Cntral Register of Indian Medicine to practice Modern Scientific Medicine in any of its branches unless the person is also enrolled on a State Medical Registerwithin the meaning of 1956 Act; However the right to prescribe Modern Medicine by practitioners of Indian Medicine under rule2(ee)(iii) of Drugs and Cosmetics Act 1940 would be available in those States whree privilege of such right to practice any system of medicine is conferred by the State Law under which practitioners of Indian Medicine registered in the state.
Dear Dr.Deshmukh
Why you are keeping silent? You have not provided the information I asked you.
Any way you may be registered with MCI and then you are bound to abide the code of medical ethics by MCI.
Please read and understand the following in the code of ethics…Understand that you are doing a punishable offence ! ! ! ! !
Please read the code of ethics…
It clearly says in the chapter 1 under A Declaration Clause 1.1.3, that a person obtaining qualification in any other system of medicine is not allowed to practice Modern system of medicine in any form.
Dr.Deshmukh you may not be aware that the act which permit us to practice modern medicine is not the Drug & Cosmetic Act.It only for the purpose of Pharmacists and not for the doctors.Our practice in modern medicine is controlled by the MCI Act and code o medical ethics.This is for your kind information.
Apex court cannot change any Act or rules but they are there only to interpret it.
Regards
Vtharavath
Dear Dr.Vtharavath
It is not at all true that only those persons who are registered on Indian Medical Registry (IMR)[ I personally call it Ketan Desai’s Register (KDR)] are eligible for practicing Modern Medicine.
It is reality that Drugs & Cosmetic Act allows us to use Modern Medicine.
Maharashtra Govt. has clarified it in the information procured underd RTI.I can provide you the letter from Maha. Govt if you give me your mail id..
With Regards..
dr.yogiraj deshmukh
NATIONAL INTEGRATED MEDICAL ASSOCIATION,
PATHARDI BRANCH.
One more thing,
You have not provided me the copy of SC Judgment you was talking about…
my e-mail is:
[email protected]
Pls send details in this address
If you are unawre of the law you may please consult with a good advocate.If you are aware and purposefully ignoring the law I don’t have any answer for it.What ever you call, for the MCI register there are three catogories.
1. Modern medical register
2.Homeopathic medical register
3.Indigenous medical register.
You belong to the third or second category and not the first any way.I have asked you in which register you belong?
pls understand that drug act and Pharmacy acts are there for the Pharmacists and not for the doctors.Doctors are exempted for taking drug license as per the section 5 under schedule K of the Drug act.
You can say anything to justiy your wrong action.But legally you are doing a crime.
You tell me what is the use of these registers then?
You are trying to be above the government…Maharastra government cannot by-pass the MCI Act.If they have done it it will be questionable in the apex court.
You will be prosecuted as per the code of medical ethics(as you are also bound to abide the code of medical ethics)and as per the MCI Act.
Even though Maharashtra government has permited you to use or handle allopathic medicines as per the Drug act,you cannot practice modern medicine without regitering in the modern medical register.Handling medicine and practicing medicines are entirely different.A pharmacist can handle allopathic drugs but he cannot practice modern medicine.
This is the difference.Now you can understand isn’t it?
You are diverting the discussion…
Why you are unnecesarily inserting the word HANDLE MODERN MEDICINE..?
Maha Govt have clearlly mentioned that ISM Practitioners can use Modern Medicine..?
You are making joke with the Law..?
One day you will say that you are only allowed to smell the Modern Medicine..!
You see my reply below.I used the word “use or handle” only because if you are permitted to “use” allopathic medicine and not “handle” allopathic medicine, it is more dangerous to you.I thought using the word “Handle” will reduce the intensity of the crime that you are doing now.But you say you are permited to”use” allopathic medicines.Then it is as good as saying that a patient can “use” medicine.Using medicine is entirely diferent rom that of “Practicing” medicine.See doctor, it is clear that only a person qualiied in modern medicine cam practice modern medicine.You are really mocking at the law.
One should get permision to “practice” in modern medicine. Otherwise it is illegal.
Dear Sir,
Allowing a person who has not been trained in Modern Medicine, but in some other system of medicine, to use Modern Medicine
is similar to
Allowing a person who has got licence to drive two wheelers only and no licence for fourwheelers drive your kid’s school bus
—
If Maharashtra permits some one without 4 wheeler driving license to drive your kid’s school bus, just because he has a two wheeler driving licence, I have no comments 🙂 🙂
But in one
If there is an order like that, it will be interesting
That proves beyond doubt that the system you have studied IS NOT USEFUL to treat any ailments and YOU HAVE TO DEPEND ONLY ON MODERN MEDICINE for treating patients
Such an order, if it exists, is a clear proof that the other forms of medicine are TOTALLY USELESS and Ayurveda doctors TOO HAVE TO DEPEND ONLY ON ALLOPATHY 🙂 🙂 🙂
That order clearly says that Ayurveda is an Useless system and Ayurveda doctors are at the mercy of Allopathy drugs 🙂 🙂
Kindly give us the link to that order 🙂 🙂 🙂
Dear Editor/Moderator,
In prior posts I have already cleared views regarding Homeopathy & Ayurveda.
British Medical Association have clearly said in it’s statement that Homeopathy is withchcraft & state funding should be stopped for its promotion.
Same thing is true for Ayurveda, we only can view towards ayrveda as potential source for reasearch in Main Stream Medicine.
These two pathies have given undue importance thanx to the poloiticians of India.We have demanded that CCIM & CCH should be scrapped..
And one medical degree i.e. offered throuout Nation.
We are worthy of practicing Modern Medicine and we are ready to prove it any time before competant authorty.Modern Medicine was included in our syllabus.
With Regards..
dr.yogiraj deshmukh
NATIONAL INTEGRATED MEDICAL ASSOCIATION,
PATHARDI BRANCH.
Dear Sir,
One request : please don’t use emoticons in this serious discussion
With Regards..
Dear Sir
If Dr.Deshmukh is right, then any pharmacist can practice modern medicine as they are the people who are authorized to “USE” allopathic medicine by law .By virtue of their qualification Drug and Cosmetic Act permit them to use allopathic medicines. Hence they can also make similar claims..! ! ! ! !
Regards
Vtharavath
You have wrongly interpreted Drugs and Cosmetics Act.
Dear Editor/Moderator
TargetPG,
we all are registered medical practtitioners of Indian
medicine [ISM DOCTORS]. we all are registered under maharashtra
medical practitioners act 1961 [MMP ACT 1961] also corelated with
section 17 of The Indian medicine central council act 1970 [act no 48
of 1970] ( IMCC act 1970) in part one of the register.
1) According to MMP ACT 1961 section 2(fa) says that
indian medicine means astang ayurveda or siddha or unani whether
supplimented or not by such modern advances as the central council
from time to time by notification may declare under clause (e) of
section 2 of the IMCC ACT 1970
Also section 25(1) says that a legally qualified
medical practitioner under MMP ACT 1961,having right to practice any
system of medicine shall,in all acts of the state legislature and in
all central acts i.e.IMCC ACT 1970.
Also section 33(1)(i) says that the register
mentiontioned under MMP ACT 1961,registered practitioners shall
practice any system of medicine in the state.
2) IMCC ACT 1970,in which all practitioners of ISM are
registered are having right and privilege of practicing any system of
medicine have been protected under section 17(3)(b) of IMCC ACT 1970.
3) According to the state GAZZETE published by GOVT OF
MAHARASHTRA dated 25/11/1992 it is clearely mentioned that “the govt
of maharashtra here by directs that the ayurvedic practitioners
enrolled on the state register under MMP ACT1961 holding qualification
specified in part A,B & A-1 of the shedule appended in the said act
shall be eligible to practice the modern system of medicine which is
known as allopathic system of medicine to the extent of the training
they received in that system.
4) when the food and drug commissioner issued a
missguiding circular dated 18/12/1996 directing to all the chemists in
maharashtra not to honour the prescriptions of ISM doctors if it
contains allopathic medicine,our organisation filed awrit petition in
honourable HIGH COURT mumbai bench,the honourable HIGH court Mumbai
quashed the said circular & after that department of medical
education & drug passed a GOVT. NOTIFICATION order dated 23/02/1999
that the practitioners registerd under MMP ACT 1961 in part A,A-1,B&D
can practice modern scientific system of medicine for the purpose of
the drug & cosmetic act 1940 (23 of 1940).
5) In the letter issued by under secretary b.h.tayade
dated 28/05/2007 under RIGHT TO INFORMATION ACT it is clearly informed
that the ayurvedic practitioners can practice allopathic system of
medicine.
6)according to the CCIM resolution dated 30/08/1996
“institutionally qualified practitioners of ISM & those covered under
IMCC ACT 1970 are eligible to practice Indian system of medicine &
modern medicine which is known as allopathic medicine including
surgery, gynacology& obstetrics based on their training &
teaching.this training & teaching is included in the syllabus of CCIM.
The meaning of the word modern advances means advances made in various
branches of modern scientific medicine,clinical,non-clinical &
bio-sciences.
7) According to the CCIM notification dated 30/10/1996
it is clearly mentioned that,”The right of practitioners of ISM
doctors to practice modern scientific system of medicine (Allopathic
medicine) are protected under section 17(3)(b) of Indian medicine
central council act 1970.
Thus from all above evidences it is absolutely clear
that ISM doctors are eligible to practice modern medicine which is
known as allopathic medicine.
so we all are INTEGRATED practitioners and can use
AYURVEDA as well as ALLOPATHY.It is our right and we are not doing cross
pathy practice.
With Regards..
dr.yogiraj deshmukh
NATIONAL INTEGRATED MEDICAL ASSOCIATION,
PATHARDI BRANCH.
Dear Dr.Deshmukh
For Your Information………..
I claim, on the basis of legal documents, that I am an Ayurveda / Integrated practitioner and am fully authorised to practice allopathy. How can my claim be refuted?
QUESTION—I am an integrated medical practitioner. I am registered under the Maharashtra
Medical Practitioners Act, 1961. I have a qualification in Indian medicine and I claim, on the basis of the following acts, rules, notifications etc. that I am legally competent and allowed to practice modern medicine / allopathy. Do you agree with my claim?
ANSWER:
1–I do not agree with your claim. As a matter of fact, it is not a question of whether I agree or not. It is more a question of whether the courts, including the Supreme Court, agree or not.
2—By the way, let me make it clear that there is nothing like integrated medicine or integrated medical practitioner. This term is not mentioned in any legislation or court judgment. On the other hand, the MCI circular no. MCI/Circular/10/1116-31-32/Anti-quackery/2010 dated 10-8-2010 sent to various authorities (Health Secretaries of all states; (Health directorates of all states; (Directors of Indian Systems of Medicine & Homeopathy of all states; Registrars of all State boards / Councils; District magistrates of all states; Superintendent of Police of districts of all states; and, Secretary-general of IMA) states in para 3 as follows: “There is no system of medicine recognised in our country like: 1—Electro-homeopathy; 2—Alternative System of medicine; 3—Integrated system of medicine or integrated medicine”. Hence you are simply a practitioner of Indian Medicine and not of integrated medicine.
3—Even otherwise, the word “integrated” does not occur anywhere in the Act under which you are registered.
4—The acts, rules, notifications etc. referred by you are discussed below:
1)– According to MMP ACT 1961 section 2(fa) says that
Indian medicine means astang ayurveda or siddha or unani whether
supplemented or not by such modern advances as the central council
from time to time by notification may declare under clause (e) of
section 2 of the IMCC ACT 1970.
MY RESPONSE—This means nothing. It does not mean you are qualified to practice allopathy. This has been so held by the Supreme Court in Dr. Mukhtiar Chand & Ors. Vs. State Of Punjab & Ors., Date Of Judgment: 08/10/1998, K. T. Thomas, Syed Shah Mohammed Quadri, AIR 1999, SC 468, (1998 (7) SCC 579)
**
Also section 25(1) says that a legally qualified medical practitioner under MMP ACT 1961,having right to practice any system of medicine shall, in all acts of the state legislature and in all central acts, i.e., IMCC ACT 1970.
MY RESPONSE—You are trying to distort things. The Preamble to the Act reads—“ An Act to regulate the qualifications and to provide for the registration of practitioners of the Ayurvedic, Siddha and Unani Systems of Medicine….”. The words “any system of medicine” in your quote refer to any system out of the three systems mentioned.
**
Also section 33(1)(i) says that the register mentiontioned under MMP ACT 1961,registered practitioners shall practice any system of medicine in the state.
MY RESPONSE—You are falsely trying to distort things. The register referred concerns only the three systems, namely, Ayurvedic, Siddha and Unani.
2) IMCC ACT 1970,in which all practitioners of ISM are registered are having right and privilege of practicing any system of medicine have been protected under section 17(3)(b) of IMCC ACT 1970.
MY RESPONSE—Your statement is wrong. This has been so held by the Supreme Court in Dr. Mukhtiar Chand case.
3) According to the state GAZZETE published by GOVT OF
MAHARASHTRA dated 25/11/1992 it is clearly mentioned that “the govt.
of Maharashtra here by directs that the Ayurvedic practitioners
enrolled on the state register under MMP ACT1961 holding qualification
specified in part A,B & A-1 of the schedule appended in the said act
shall be eligible to practice the modern system of medicine which is
known as allopathic system of medicine to the extent of the training
they received in that system.
MY RESPONSE—I have not seen the said gazette notification. It appears you are again misquoting / misrepresenting. This is most likely so because the said notification is based upon the MMP ACT1, i961, which concerns only the three Indian systems mentioned above. The said notification is dated 1992 and stands over-ruled by the Mukhtiar Chand judgment dated 1998.
4) when the food and drug commissioner issued a misguiding circular dated 18/12/1996 directing to all the chemists in Maharashtra not to honour the prescriptions of ISM doctors if it contains allopathic medicine, our organisation filed a writ petition in
honourable HIGH COURT Mumbai bench, the honourable HIGH court Mumbai
quashed the said circular & after that department of medical education & drug passed a GOVT. NOTIFICATION order dated 23/02/1999 that the practitioners registered under MMP ACT 1961 in part A,A-1,B&D can practice modern scientific system of medicine for the purpose of the drug & cosmetic act 1940 (23 of 1940).
MY RESPONSE—
The position stated by you is untenable. Mukhtiar Chand applies. MMPA has nothing to do with allopathy.
5) In the letter issued by under- secretary b. h. Tayade dated 28/05/2007 under RIGHT TO INFORMATION ACT it is clearly informed that the Ayurvedic practitioners can practice allopathic system of medicine.
MY RESPONSE—Even if it is so stated (though not accepted) that it is so mentioned in some statement sought / given under RTI, it has no value. The purpose of RTI is to reveal official documents and not to inform about or interpret law. SC has already done that. Mukhtiar Chand is still valid.
6) According to the CCIM resolution dated 30/08/1996 “institutionally qualified practitioners of ISM & those covered under IMCC ACT 1970 are eligible to practice Indian system of medicine & modern medicine which is known as allopathic medicine including surgery, gynecology & obstetrics based on their training & teaching. This training & teaching is included in the syllabus of CCIM. The meaning of the word modern advances means advances made in various branches of modern scientific medicine, clinical, non-clinical & bio-sciences.
MY RESPONSE—This resolution has no meaning. It cannot negate a SC judgment.
7) According to the CCIM notification dated 30/10/1996 it is clearly mentioned that, ”The right of practitioners of ISM doctors to practice modern scientific system of medicine (Allopathic medicine) are protected under section 17(3)(b) of Indian Medicine Central Council Act, 1970.
MY RESPONSE—This notification was considered and not relied upon by the court in Dr. J. Kaleem Nawaz vs. State of Tamil Nadu & Ors., Madras, 29 October, 2010, M. Sathyanarayanan, J.
—M C Gupta
MBBS & MD (Medicine), AIIMS; MPH (San Carlos Univ.)
LL.B. (Delhi); LL.M. (Kurukshetra)
Fellow: National Foundation of Clinical Forensic Medicine
Member, Indian Law Institute
Member, Supreme Court Bar Association
Ex-Additional Professor, AIIMS
Ex-Professor and Dean, NIHFW
Practicing advocate, (Delhi Bar Council no. 857/2001)
Regards
Vtharavath
Top class webpage yours sincerely, Loura Tutterow
It is a good initiative by the govt. some number of employment can be done by this process if it is not the money making initiation. On the other hand generally in the village MBBS doctors are not willing to stay due to their insufficient accomodation, income,communication. so if local person will get such course to study and if he will be posted in his native place then it will be more helpful for the villagers, according to me before starting the course clear identification is needed for whom the course should be implimated wheather only rural candidate are being selected. Because cities candidates are will never stay in village after completion of course. On the other hand Govt can arrange some allopathy training programme to train the Traditional practitioner who are practicing in the village. It will be more helpful than the course offered. It is my personal openion only.
Hello
It is not suficient.Even the President of the Panchayath and all the members shold be trained in allopathic medicine as they will be serving the local public always.We can have local farmers (as was in china) and local grocers can be given traing in Allopathic medicines so that the rural patients will get better treatment all the time.
Dr.Deshmukh
Received the copy of the letter you have sent. But I am sorry, that I am not familiar with the language in which it is written..
If you feel that it is legal, then my advice is that you must get registered in the Modern Medical register with State Medical Council with the support of this Govt order. Believe me, otherwise it is illegal to practice Modern Medicine without proper registration with state medical council in the appropriate medical register. It will also save you from any dispute when some thing happens adverse in your practice as modern medical practitioner..This Order alone will not save you from any legal dispute.
Dear Editor/Moderator,
TargetPG
In prior posts I have already cleared views regarding Homeopathy & Ayurveda.
British Medical Association have clearly said in it’s statement that Homeopathy is withchcraft & state funding should be stopped for its promotion.
Same thing is true for Ayurveda, we only can view towards ayrveda as potential source for reasearch in Main Stream Medicine.
These two pathies have given undue importance thanx to the politicians of India.We have demanded that CCIM & CCH should be scrapped..
And one medical degree i.e.MBBS, offered throuout the Nation.
We are worthy of practicing Modern Medicine and we are ready to prove it any time before competant authorty.Modern Medicine was included in our syllabus.
For details, read prior posts carefully..
With Regards..
dr.yogiraj deshmukh
NATIONAL INTEGRATED MEDICAL ASSOCIATION,
PATHARDI BRANCH.
Read the similiar order from TamilNadu Health Dept..
HEALTH AND FAMILY WELFARE (IM 2 -2) DEPARTMENT
G.O. (Ms) No. 248 Dated : 08.09.2010
Thiruvalluvar Aandu 2041
Aavani 23
ORDER :
The following Notification will be published in the Tamil Nadu Government
Gazettee .
NOTIFICATION.
WHEREAS, the rights of practitioners of Indian System of Medicine are
protected under section 17(3) (b) of the Indian Medicine Central Council Act, 1970
(Central Act 48 of 1970) ;
AND WHEREAS, as per section 2 (1) (e) of the said Act, “Indian Medicine“
means the system of Indian Medicine commonly known as Ashtang Ayurveda, Siddha
or Unani Tibb whether supplemented or not by such modern advances, as the Central
Council of Indian Medicine may declare by notification from time to time ;
AND WHEREAS , the Central Council of Indian Medicine in its Notification
F.No.28-5/2004-AY.(MM), dated the 19th May 2004, has clarified that the word “Modern
Advances” in clause (e) of section 2 (1) of the said Act as advances made in the
various branches of modern scientific medicine in all its branches of internal
medicine , surgery, gynaecology and obstetrics , anesthesiology, diagnostic procedures
and other technological innovation made from time to time and declare that the courses
and curriculum conducted and recognized by the Central Council of Indian Medicine are
supplemented with such modern advances ;
AND WHEREAS , the Central Council of Indian Medicine has improved and
strengthened the syllabus of Indian Medicine by including subjects with regard to
National Programmes like National Malaria Eradication programmes, Tuberculosis,
Leprosy, Family Welfare Programme, Reproductive and Child Health Programme,
Immunisation Programme, AIDS, Cancer etc ;
-2-
Now, THEREFORE, under sub – clause (iii) of clause (ee) of rule 2 of the Drugs
and Cosmetics Rules, 1945 the Governor of Tamil Nadu hereby declares every
registered medical practitioner holding the qualifications specified in the second, third
or fourth Schedule to the Indian Medicine Central Council Act, 1970 (Central Act
48 of 1970) and Part III of the Schedule to the Tamil Nadu Siddha System of Medicine
(Development and Registration of Practitioners) Act , 1997 (Tamil Nadu Act 34 of 1997)
and registered in the Medical Register of the State maintained under the aforesaid
Acts, as a person practicing the modern scientific system of medicine for the purposes
of the Drugs and Cosmetics Act, 1940 (Central Act 23 of 1940.)
(BY ORDER OF THE GOVERNOR)
V.K.SUBBURAJ
PRINCIPAL SECRETARY TO GOVERNMENT
To
The Principal Secretary and Commissioner of
Indian Medicine and Homoeopathy,
Arumbakkam, Chennai – 106.
The Works Manager,
Government General Press,
Chennai.- 2 (for publication of Notification in the Government Gazette)
The Registrar,
Tamil Nadu Siddha Medical Council,
Arumbakkkam, Chennai – 106.
The Registrar,
Tamil Nadu Board of Indian Medicine,
Arumbakkkam, Chennai – 106.
The Director General of Police,
Chennai – 4,
SF/SC
// Forwarded / By Order //
SECTION OFFICER
Dear Dr.Deshmukh
Even though there is an order from the state government based on the drug and cosmetic Act,you cannot practice modern medicine without abiding the MCI Act and Regulations.You are also bound to obey the code of medical ethics.Drug Act is not the one to control practice in Modern medicine.Otherwise(whatever you call the MCI)what is the significance of MCI existing as a statutory body to regulate the practice in Modern medicine by any one in India?
Please provide legal explanation..
Vtharavath
Let us remember that the welfare of the patient is the most important
There are only two types of ayurveda drugs – one which does not work and the second, which produces serious side effects like Renal Failure, Liver Failure, Cancers etc and in many cases, the side effects are not even properly documents
The Ayurveda doctors, of late have learned this
They have also observed that Allopathy drugs work, and have the LEAST side effects, and the side effects are predictable and well documented
For the benefit of the patient, they want to use The EFFICIENT and SAFE ALLOPATHY drugs instead of the DANGEROUS and INEFFICIENT AYURVEDIC Drugs
For this they have represented few state governments
Those state governments might have studied this in detail. They also have come to the conclusions, that patients are served well by giving the SAFE and EFFICIENT ALLOPATHY drugs instead of the DANGEROUS and INEFFICIENT AYURVEDA Drugs
So they have passed these orders
These orders are from patient point of view 🙂 🙂
GOVERNMENT OF INDIA,
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND FAMILY WELFARE,
LOKSABHA,UNSTARRED QUESTION,
TO BE ANSWERED ON 24/08/2005
PERMISSION TO BAMS GRADUATES TO PRACTICE MODERN MEDICINE
4235 SHRI.S.MALLIKARJUNIAH
HANSRAJ GANGARAM AHIR
Will The Minister HEALTH AND FAMILY WELFARE be pleased to state :-
(a)Whether the Bachelor of Ayurvedic and Medicine Services (BAMS),Integrated Medical Graduates are being allowed to practice Modern System of Medicine in the country;
(b)If so details thereof;
(c) If not the reasons thereof; and
(d) The time by when it is likely to be considered by the Governmnt.
ANSWER
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND FAMILY WELFARE (DR. ANMBUMANI RAMADOSS)
(a)to (d) This matter was examined by Hon’ble Supreme Court in the case of Dr.Mukhtiar Chand and Ors. Vs. the Stae of Punjab, civil appeal No.89 of 1987.Hon’ble Supreme Court has held that harmonious reading of section 15 of Indian Medical Council Act 1956 and section 17 of Indian Medicine Cental Council (IMCC) Act leads to the conclusion that there is no scope for a person enrolled on the State Register of Indian Medicine or Cntral Register of Indian Medicine to practice Modern Scientific Medicine in any of its branches unless the person is also enrolled on a State Medical Registerwithin the meaning of 1956 Act; However the right to prescribe Modern Medicine by practitioners of Indian Medicine under rule2(ee)(iii) of Drugs and Cosmetics Act 1940 would be available in those States whree privilege of such right to practice any system of medicine is conferred by the State Law under which practitioners of Indian Medicine registered in the state.
//However the right to prescribe Modern Medicine by practitioners of Indian Medicine under rule2(ee)(iii) of Drugs and Cosmetics Act 1940 would be available in those States whree privilege of such right to practice any system of medicine is conferred by the State Law under which practitioners of Indian Medicine registered in the state.//
Excellent
This again proves that ALLOPATHY DRUGS ONLY WORK and the Ayurveda Drugs are totally useless and the Ayurveda doctors have to depend on Allopathy drugs for treatment
This is a slap on the face of all those quacks who claim that they can cure diseases
If Ayurvedic drugs are USELESS and Ayurveda Doctors are AT THE MERCY OF ALLOPATHY DRUGS for treating patients, what is the fun in having that course which teaches drugs which are not used EVEN by those doctors, where as Allopathy drugs are used by Allopathy doctors as well as Ayurveda doctors.
Why can’t Ayurveda Course (BAMS) be totally scrapped and instead of that same number of MBBS Students admitted in that college and let them get trained in Modern Medicine
It is better to prescribe modern medicine after learning modern medicine than to prescribe Modern Medicine without learning it,but learning only ayurveda
I thank dr.yogiraj deshmukh sir for his references . . .
It has been time and again proved that
There is ONLY one system of Medicine which works and that is Allopathy
All other doctors treat by using these drugs only
//Why can’t Ayurveda Course (BAMS) be totally scrapped and instead of that same number of MBBS Students admitted in that college and let them get trained in Modern Medicine//
I agree with you sir..!
From the beginning of the discussion I am elaborating on this fact.State funding for Ayrveda & Homeopathy should immediately stopped.As these pathies are useless to develop Health Care System of the country.
But Doctors from these courses are doing good job as Modern Medical Practitioner specially in rural India since last 20-25yrs.
We are demanding to register us with MCI as Primary Health Care provider by providing us refreshing course in Modern Medicine.
BAMS/BHMS/BUMS/BSMS all these courses with their councils CCIM and CCH should be scrapped.
We are successful Modern Medical Practitioners since last 15 yrs.I again repeat that we are ready to prove ourselves as worthy Modern Medical Practitioner before competent authority.
Govt can use this huge & trained manpower to develop rural healthcare.There is no need of BRMS/BRHC Course.
Thanx TargetPG for providing us platform to express ourselves.
Thanx Dr.Vtharavth for sporty discussion..!
With Regards..
dr.yogiraj deshmukh
NATIONAL INTEGRATED MEDICAL ASSOCIATION,
PATHARDI BRANCH.
Even if all the AYURVEDA Colleges are transormed in to Allopathic Medical college,without undergoing the admission procedures set by MCI no one will get admitted for MBBS. So the same situation prevails.Only able candidates will get admission..
//We are successful Modern Medical Practitioners since last 15 yrs.I again repeat that we are ready to prove ourselves as worthy Modern Medical Practitioner before competent authority.//
Pharmacists are in the opinion that “even MBBS graduates are not good enough to Handle allopathic Medicines”(HO….HO…! ! ! )
What will be their answer for this golden words?
Thank you very Much Dr.Deshmukh for such a good discussion.
Regards
Vtharavath
Dear Sr.Deshmukh
Kor your information………………….
I claim, on the basis of legal documents, that I am an Ayurveda / Integrated practitioner and am fully authorised to practice allopathy. How can my claim be refuted?
QUESTION—I am an integrated medical practitioner. I am registered under the Maharashtra
Medical Practitioners Act, 1961. I have a qualification in Indian medicine and I claim, on the basis of the following acts, rules, notifications etc. that I am legally competent and allowed to practice modern medicine / allopathy. Do you agree with my claim?
ANSWER:
1–I do not agree with your claim. As a matter of fact, it is not a question of whether I agree or not. It is more a question of whether the courts, including the Supreme Court, agree or not.
2—By the way, let me make it clear that there is nothing like integrated medicine or integrated medical practitioner. This term is not mentioned in any legislation or court judgment. On the other hand, the MCI circular no. MCI/Circular/10/1116-31-32/Anti-quackery/2010 dated 10-8-2010 sent to various authorities (Health Secretaries of all states; (Health directorates of all states; (Directors of Indian Systems of Medicine & Homeopathy of all states; Registrars of all State boards / Councils; District magistrates of all states; Superintendent of Police of districts of all states; and, Secretary-general of IMA) states in para 3 as follows: “There is no system of medicine recognised in our country like: 1—Electro-homeopathy; 2—Alternative System of medicine; 3—Integrated system of medicine or integrated medicine”. Hence you are simply a practitioner of Indian Medicine and not of integrated medicine.
3—Even otherwise, the word “integrated” does not occur anywhere in the Act under which you are registered.
4—The acts, rules, notifications etc. referred by you are discussed below:
1)– According to MMP ACT 1961 section 2(fa) says that
Indian medicine means astang ayurveda or siddha or unani whether
supplemented or not by such modern advances as the central council
from time to time by notification may declare under clause (e) of
section 2 of the IMCC ACT 1970.
MY RESPONSE—This means nothing. It does not mean you are qualified to practice allopathy. This has been so held by the Supreme Court in Dr. Mukhtiar Chand & Ors. Vs. State Of Punjab & Ors., Date Of Judgment: 08/10/1998, K. T. Thomas, Syed Shah Mohammed Quadri, AIR 1999, SC 468, (1998 (7) SCC 579)
**
Also section 25(1) says that a legally qualified medical practitioner under MMP ACT 1961,having right to practice any system of medicine shall, in all acts of the state legislature and in all central acts, i.e., IMCC ACT 1970.
MY RESPONSE—You are trying to distort things. The Preamble to the Act reads—“ An Act to regulate the qualifications and to provide for the registration of practitioners of the Ayurvedic, Siddha and Unani Systems of Medicine….”. The words “any system of medicine” in your quote refer to any system out of the three systems mentioned.
**
Also section 33(1)(i) says that the register mentiontioned under MMP ACT 1961,registered practitioners shall practice any system of medicine in the state.
MY RESPONSE—You are falsely trying to distort things. The register referred concerns only the three systems, namely, Ayurvedic, Siddha and Unani.
2) IMCC ACT 1970,in which all practitioners of ISM are registered are having right and privilege of practicing any system of medicine have been protected under section 17(3)(b) of IMCC ACT 1970.
MY RESPONSE—Your statement is wrong. This has been so held by the Supreme Court in Dr. Mukhtiar Chand case.
3) According to the state GAZZETE published by GOVT OF
MAHARASHTRA dated 25/11/1992 it is clearly mentioned that “the govt.
of Maharashtra here by directs that the Ayurvedic practitioners
enrolled on the state register under MMP ACT1961 holding qualification
specified in part A,B & A-1 of the schedule appended in the said act
shall be eligible to practice the modern system of medicine which is
known as allopathic system of medicine to the extent of the training
they received in that system.
MY RESPONSE—I have not seen the said gazette notification. It appears you are again misquoting / misrepresenting. This is most likely so because the said notification is based upon the MMP ACT1, i961, which concerns only the three Indian systems mentioned above. The said notification is dated 1992 and stands over-ruled by the Mukhtiar Chand judgment dated 1998.
4) when the food and drug commissioner issued a misguiding circular dated 18/12/1996 directing to all the chemists in Maharashtra not to honour the prescriptions of ISM doctors if it contains allopathic medicine, our organisation filed a writ petition in
honourable HIGH COURT Mumbai bench, the honourable HIGH court Mumbai
quashed the said circular & after that department of medical education & drug passed a GOVT. NOTIFICATION order dated 23/02/1999 that the practitioners registered under MMP ACT 1961 in part A,A-1,B&D can practice modern scientific system of medicine for the purpose of the drug & cosmetic act 1940 (23 of 1940).
MY RESPONSE—
The position stated by you is untenable. Mukhtiar Chand applies. MMPA has nothing to do with allopathy.
5) In the letter issued by under- secretary b. h. Tayade dated 28/05/2007 under RIGHT TO INFORMATION ACT it is clearly informed that the Ayurvedic practitioners can practice allopathic system of medicine.
MY RESPONSE—Even if it is so stated (though not accepted) that it is so mentioned in some statement sought / given under RTI, it has no value. The purpose of RTI is to reveal official documents and not to inform about or interpret law. SC has already done that. Mukhtiar Chand is still valid.
6) According to the CCIM resolution dated 30/08/1996 “institutionally qualified practitioners of ISM & those covered under IMCC ACT 1970 are eligible to practice Indian system of medicine & modern medicine which is known as allopathic medicine including surgery, gynecology & obstetrics based on their training & teaching. This training & teaching is included in the syllabus of CCIM. The meaning of the word modern advances means advances made in various branches of modern scientific medicine, clinical, non-clinical & bio-sciences.
MY RESPONSE—This resolution has no meaning. It cannot negate a SC judgment.
7) According to the CCIM notification dated 30/10/1996 it is clearly mentioned that, ”The right of practitioners of ISM doctors to practice modern scientific system of medicine (Allopathic medicine) are protected under section 17(3)(b) of Indian Medicine Central Council Act, 1970.
MY RESPONSE—This notification was considered and not relied upon by the court in Dr. J. Kaleem Nawaz vs. State of Tamil Nadu & Ors., Madras, 29 October, 2010, M. Sathyanarayanan, J.
—M C Gupta
MBBS & MD (Medicine), AIIMS; MPH (San Carlos Univ.)
LL.B. (Delhi); LL.M. (Kurukshetra)
Fellow: National Foundation of Clinical Forensic Medicine
Member, Indian Law Institute
Member, Supreme Court Bar Association
Ex-Additional Professor, AIIMS
Ex-Professor and Dean, NIHFW
Practicing advocate, (Delhi Bar Council no. 857/2001)
Regards
Vtharavath
Respected,
—M C Gupta
MBBS & MD (Medicine), AIIMS; MPH (San Carlos Univ.)
LL.B. (Delhi); LL.M. (Kurukshetra)
Fellow: National Foundation of Clinical Forensic Medicine
Member, Indian Law Institute
Member, Supreme Court Bar Association
Ex-Additional Professor, AIIMS
Ex-Professor and Dean, NIHFW
Practicing advocate, (Delhi Bar Council no. 857/2001)
You are using tail of degrees to influence the readers.
There is answer to all your arguments.
I will answer all your queries within 2-3 days
//On the other hand, the MCI circular no. MCI/Circular/10/1116-31-32/Anti-quackery/2010 dated 10-8-2010 sent to various authorities (Health Secretaries of all states; (Health directorates of all states; (Directors of Indian Systems of Medicine & Homeopathy of all states; Registrars of all State boards / Councils; District magistrates of all states; Superintendent of Police of districts of all states; and, Secretary-general of IMA) states in para 3 as follows: “There is no system of medicine recognised in our country like: 1—Electro-homeopathy; 2—Alternative System of medicine; 3—Integrated system of medicine or integrated medicine”. Hence you are simply a practitioner of Indian Medicine and not of integrated medicine.//
Dear sir, let me inform you that the letter was fraudulent.
See the response from MCI itself….
……..MCI deputy secretary Reena Mayyar has stated: “I am to inform you (CCIM secretary) that as per record available, the Council has not issued circular no MCI/Circular/10/1116-31-32/Anti-Quackery/2010 dated August 10, 2010.”
This is example how you are misleading the readers..!!
All your queries will be answered within short period of time..!!!
With Regards..
dr.yogiraj deshmukh
NATIONAL INTEGRATED MEDICAL ASSOCIATION,
PATHARDI BRANCH.
Dear Dr.Deshmukuh
//……..MCI deputy secretary Reena Mayyar has stated: “I am to inform you (CCIM secretary) that as per record available, the Council has not issued circular no MCI/Circular/10/1116-31-32/Anti-Quackery/2010 dated August 10, 2010.”
//
This two line statement is not sufficient.It doesnot have any authenticity and so no one will believe.You should quote the detailed letter with sufficient proof,if it is there.If you can give me details of the particular letter,I will be able to veryfy the same.
Regards
Vtharavath
Dear Dr.Vtharavath,
The MCI letter is with me. I want clarification from
—M C Gupta
MBBS & MD (Medicine), AIIMS; MPH (San Carlos Univ.)
LL.B. (Delhi); LL.M. (Kurukshetra)
Fellow: National Foundation of Clinical Forensic Medicine
Member, Indian Law Institute
Member, Supreme Court Bar Association
Ex-Additional Professor, AIIMS
Ex-Professor and Dean, NIHFW
Practicing advocate, (Delhi Bar Council no. 857/2001)
In this regard.
I am firm on my statement that he is misleading the readers regarding the MCI/Circular/10/1116-31-32/Anti-Quackery/2010 dated August 10, 2010.
I am waiting for his response..
with regrds…
DR.YOGIRAJ DESHMUKH,
National Integrated Medical Association,
Pathardi Branch.
Email: [email protected]
Cell No. 09420945858
Dear Dr.Deshmukh
If you are so confident about what you have said is true, you should post the said letter here or at least send it to me so that I can verify for its genuineness. Without any proof for verification how can we continue the discussion?
Vtharavath
Dear Dr. Gupta & Dr. Deshmukh,
Thanx for an excellent intellectual discussion enlightening the entire medical fraternity (those registered in MCI or other recognized council) on a subject which really needs crystal clear legal position. Please don’t abrupt the discussion in midway till it reaches a logical conclusion .
Dr.Pravir
Its me in between………
Regards
Vtharavath
Dear Dr.Vtharavath
Why you are speaking (I mean writing ) on behalf of Dr.M.C.Gupta…?
I think he is able to clarify his position in this regard (The fraudulent MCI Circular MCI/Circular/10/1116-31-32/Anti-Quackery/2010 dated August 10, 2010)
I am waiting for his won statement..!
Thanx With Regards…
dr.yogiraj deshmukh
Dear Dr.Deshmukh
I have posted his response to you.He has not written to you directly.He is not going to respond for your mail.At present I am writing to you and we should interact in this regard.
Why are you hesitant to post the said letter from MCI deputy secretary Reena Nayyar in this page? If there is one as told by you, you should be able to post it.
If not, you lost…
Vtharavath
Dear Dr.Deshmukh
There is no need of Dr.M.C. Gupta to clarify his position as he is not doing any thing illegal.But you have to clariy your position as you are the one doing illegal activity.That is why I have asked you to post the said letter in this page,if there exists a letter like that.
Regards
Vtharavath
Dear Dr.Vtharavath,
Please remember one thing you or Dr.M.C.Gupta are not judiciary to “decide” what is legal or illegal.
You have no right to say that //you are the one doing illegal activity.//.
Dr.Gupta have given reference of the fraudulent MCI Circular MCI/Circular/10/1116-31-32/Anti-Quackery/2010 dated August 10, 2010
He should publish the said letter as it is,then I will prove how it is fraudulent..!
It is not the thing that Dr.Gupta has never participated directly in this discussion.
He has posted directly in this discussion.
Now why he he is shying from posting the fraudulent letter.
And remember one thing that this is just a serious discussion.
Both of you are not Hon’ble Courts hence you could not make comments like ” he is not doing any thing illegal.But you have to clariy your position as you are the one doing illegal activity.”
Mind your limits please…!
With Regards..
dr.yogiraj deshmukh
NATIONAL INTEGRATED MEDICAL ASSOCIATION,
PATHARDI BRANCH.
To reach at a logical conclusion, the burden of proof lies on Dr. Deshmukh to post the MCI response given by Dr Nayyar in relation to MCI/Circular/10/1116-31-32/Anti-Quackery/2010 dated August 10,2010.
Dear Dr.Pravir,
You are right but let Dr.Gupta respond in this regard (The fraudulent MCI Circular MCI/Circular/10/1116-31-32/Anti-Quackery/2010 dated August 10, 2010).Then I will publish letter with me.
Mean while refer this link : http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2010-11-30/pune/28228434_1_mci-ccim-unani/2
Thanx with Regards
dr.yogiraj deshmukh
Dear Dr.Pravir,
You are right but let Dr.Gupta respond in this regard (The fraudulent MCI Circular MCI/Circular/10/1116-31-32/Anti-Quackery/2010 dated August 10, 2010).Then I will publish letter with me.
Mean while refer this link : http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2010-11-30/pune/28228434_1_mci-ccim-unani
Thanx with Regards
dr.yogiraj deshmukh
Dear Dr. Deshmukh,
I went through the link which suggest that “NIMA officials called a press conference to release the MCI’s letter clarifying its position on the issue”. It seems that The Secretary,Central Council of Indian Medicine (CCIM)might have received that letter. But still I feel that it need to be cross checked from MCI about authenticity of that letter as career of 7 lakh integrated medicine practitioners in the country is at stake, if the letter claimed to be written by Dr. Nayyar to the secertary CCIM comes out to be a fake letter.
If the state governments have stopped taking action under the anti-quackery provision against doctors, who offer integrated medicine in those states, then the letter issued by Dr. Nayyar is quiet likely to be a genuine one ( hoping that they might have cross checked it from MCI,before stopping the action under the anti-quackery provision ).
With best regards
Dear Dr.Vtharavath,
Pls remember one thing you or Dr.M.C.Gupta are not judiciary to “decide” what is legal or illegal.
You have no right to say that //you are the one doing illegal activity.//.
Dr.Gupta have given reference of the fraudulent MCI Circular MCI/Circular/10/1116-31-32/Anti-Quackery/2010 dated August 10, 2010
He should publish the said letter as it is,then I will prove how it is fraudulent..!
It is not the thing that Dr.Gupta has never participated directly in this discussion.
He has posted directly in this discussion, Now why he he is shying from posting the fraudulent letter.
And remember one thing that this just a serious discussion.
Both of you are not Hon’ble Courts hence you could not make comments like ” he is not doing any thing illegal.But you have to clariy your position as you are the one doing illegal activity.”
Mind your limits please…!
With Regards..
dr.yogiraj deshmukh
NATIONAL INTEGRATED MEDICAL ASSOCIATION,
PATHARDI BRANCH.
Dear all
It is the fact that the court cannot alter or change the Act or laws made by the Parliament. Every one knows that the court can only provide interpretations. So whatever may be the claim by Dr.Deshmukh, the clause 1.1.3 under chapter one of Code of Ethics Regulations, 2002 by MCI ( which is a central Act) cannot be changed by any court or by any state orders. Laws are laws and always it will be like that. Even though health is a state subject, a state order cannot change any clause in the central act and the state orders should be according to the rules and regulations set by the central government, if there is any. If not it can be challenged in the court .Any person with common sense can understand the argument that practice of allopathy by an ISM person is illegal after reading the following quote. Otherwise what is the use of setting strict stipulations and criteria for admission to MBBS by MCI? It is easy to be ab ISM practitioner (those who are not qualified for the admission to MBBS usually join for other system of medicines like ISM always every one give preference for MBBS and Dr.Deshmukh also doing the same). Do any one feels the argument and the order what he is mentioning so far against the clause quoted below from the Code of Ethics Regulations, 2002, justifiable?
This is the code of medical ethics Dr.Deshmukh also must obey if he is registered with MCI in the respective register …
“1.1.3 No person other than a doctor having qualification recognised by Medical Council of India and registered with Medical Council of India/State Medical Council (s) is allowed to practice Modern system of Medicine or Surgery. A person obtaining qualification in any other system of Medicine is not allowed to practice Modern system of Medicine in any form.”
Please see the link below for confirmation of the above stated fact …
http://www.mciindia.org/RulesandRegulations/CodeofMedicalEthicsRegulations2002.aspx
So one must analyze any court order in this regard on the basis of above clause in the of Code of Ethics Regulations, 2002
DR.M.C.GUPTA HAS NOT POSTED ANYTHING DIRECTLY IN THIS PAGE…I AM THE PERSON WHO POSTED HIS COMMENTS IN THIS PAGE….
VTHARAVATH
Dear Dr.Vtharavath
I think you have habit of telling lies..!
SEE THE POST BELOW, POSTED DIRECTLY IN THIS DISCUSSION BY DR.M.C.GUPTA……..
Dr. M C Gupta, MD, LLM, advocate
June 4, 2011 at 5:06 pm · Reply
Dr. Deshmukh wrote–
BAMS practitioners are allowed to practice modern medicine under Drugs &Cosmetics Act 1945 Sec 2ee,in Maharashtra.
COMMENT–This is wrong in terms of the SC judgment:
DR. MUKHTIAR CHAND & ORS. Vs. STATE OF PUNJAB & ORS., DATE OF JUDGMENT: 08/10/1998, K.T.THOMAS, SYED SHAH MOHAMMED QUADRI
http://www.ccimindia.org/downloads/6%20SC%20Judgment%2008.10.pdf
M C Gupta
//Pls remember one thing you or Dr.M.C.Gupta are not judiciary to “decide” what is legal or illegal.
You have no right to say that //you are the one doing illegal activity.//.
I can tell you one more thing that being an Indian citizen we are having the right or moral botherations to question any illegal activity carried out by any other person which is against our laws and constitution. For that no one needs to be a “COURT” by himself….He is free to approach the police or court or make his own opinion against it etc…
Vtharavath
…..AND BEING AN ISM PRCTITIONER, MR.DESHMUKH IS ARGUING FOR WHAT HE IS NOT…EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT ALLOPATHIC MEDICINES ARE NOT THE MEDICINES FROM INDIAN SYSTEM OF MEDICINES ie AYURVEDA etc…AND IF ALLOPATHIC MEDICINES ARE HANDLED BY A PERSON NOT QUALIIED FOR IT, JUST IMAGINE ABOUT THE CONDITION OF THE HEALTH OF THE PATIENTS!!!!!!
IT IS AS GOOD AS A QUACK(MAY KNOW BETTER THAN YOU ABOUT ALLOPATHIC DRUGS) WITHOUT ANY QUALIFICATIONS.IN PRACTICAL HE MAY ALSO BE ABLE TO PROVE THAT HE CAN TREAT PATIENTS EVEN BETTER THAN YOU…
KEEP IN MIND THAT WHATEVER BE THE STATE ORDER, IF IT IS AGAINST THE CENTRAL ACT, IT WILL NOT BE VALID….AND YOU ARE CARRYING OUT QUACKERY….
VTHARAVATH
Dear Dr.Deshmukh
I would like to know out of the three registers(1.Modern Medical register,2.Register for Homeopathic System of Medicines,3.Register for Indian System of Medicines) with State Medical Councils in which register you have registered with?This question has been asked by me earlier also,but you have not answered…
MCI doesnot have a separate register to register the graduates having the qualification of ITEGRATED SYSTEM OF MEDICINE.
Vtharavath
Dear Dr.Vtharavath
I think you have habit of telling lies..!
SEE THE POST BELOW, POSTED DIRECTLY IN THIS DISCUSSION BY DR.M.C.GUPTA……..
Dr.Gupta writes in his post daed 4/6/2011 :
Dr. M C Gupta, MD, LLM, advocate
June 4, 2011 at 5:06 pm · Reply
Dr. Deshmukh wrote–
BAMS practitioners are allowed to practice modern medicine under Drugs &Cosmetics Act 1945 Sec 2ee,in Maharashtra.
COMMENT–This is wrong in terms of the SC judgment:
DR. MUKHTIAR CHAND & ORS. Vs. STATE OF PUNJAB & ORS., DATE OF JUDGMENT: 08/10/1998, K.T.THOMAS, SYED SHAH MOHAMMED QUADRI
http://www.ccimindia.org/downloads/6%20SC%20Judgment%2008.10.pdf
M C Gupta
DR.VTHARAVATH, YOU ARE A SERIAL LIAR AND I DIDN’T WANT ANY DISCUSSION WITH YOU ANYMORE..
THE DISCUSSION WILL BE ONLY CONTINUED IF DR.GUPTA DIRECTLY WRITES ABOUT THE FRAUDULENT CIRCULAR “MCI/Circular/10/1116-31-32/Anti-Quackery/2010 dated August 10, 2010”
With Regards..
dr.yogiraj deshmukh
NATIONAL INTEGRATED MEDICAL ASSOCIATION,
PATHARDI BRANCH.
Dear Dr.Vtharavath
I think you have habit of telling lies..!
SEE THE POST BELOW, POSTED DIRECTLY IN THIS DISCUSSION BY DR.M.C.GUPTA……..
Dr.Gupta writes in his post daed 4/6/2011 :
—————————————————————————————————————————–
Dr. M C Gupta, MD, LLM, advocate
June 4, 2011 at 5:06 pm · Reply
Dr. Deshmukh wrote–
BAMS practitioners are allowed to practice modern medicine under Drugs &Cosmetics Act 1945 Sec 2ee,in Maharashtra.
COMMENT–This is wrong in terms of the SC judgment:
DR. MUKHTIAR CHAND & ORS. Vs. STATE OF PUNJAB & ORS., DATE OF JUDGMENT: 08/10/1998, K.T.THOMAS, SYED SHAH MOHAMMED QUADRI
http://www.ccimindia.org/downloads/6%20SC%20Judgment%2008.10.pdf
M C Gupta
—————————————————————————————————————————-
DR.VTHARAVATH, YOU ARE A SERIAL LIAR AND I DIDN’T WANT ANY DISCUSSION WITH YOU ANYMORE..
THE DISCUSSION WILL BE ONLY CONTINUED IF DR.GUPTA DIRECTLY WRITES ABOUT THE FRAUDULENT CIRCULAR “MCI/Circular/10/1116-31-32/Anti-Quackery/2010 dated August 10, 2010″
With Regards..
dr.yogiraj deshmukh
NATIONAL INTEGRATED MEDICAL ASSOCIATION,
PATHARDI BRANCH.
Dear Dr.Deshmukh
///YOU ARE A SERIAL LIAR AND I DIDN’T WANT ANY DISCUSSION WITH YOU ANYMORE..///
THAT MEANS YOU WANT TO ESCAPE FROM THE DISCUSSION SAYING SILLY REASONS…NOW YOU CLEARLY UNDERSTOOD THAT YOU ARE DOING QUACKERY…THOSE WHO READ THIS PAGE ALSO CAN UNDERSTAND WHO IS THE REAL FRAUD AND LIAR…YOU HAVE NOT RESPONDED PROPERLY TO MY COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS..
MY NEXT STEP IS TO APPROCH THE MCI AND TO THE APEX COURT IN THIS REGARD..
VTHARAVATH
Dear Dr.Vtharvath,
There is no question of escaping from the discussion.I have answered all your queries in prior posts.You are reapiting the same questions again & again.
The discussion is now on points raised by DR.M.C.Gupta….
He has already participated in the discussion,NOW HE IS SHYING TO POST ANSWER DIRECTLY IN THIS DISCUSSION BECAUSE HE HAS POSTED A FRAUDULENT LETTER BY MCI.
IT IS TIME TO INVESTIGATE WHO IS BEHIND THIS FRAUDULENT CIRCULAR..
The discussion will be continued only after clearing all the dobuthe fraudulent MCI Circular MCI/Circular/10/1116-31-32/Anti-Quackery/2010 dated August 10, 2010.
dr.yogiraj deshmukh
NATIONAL INTEGRATED MEDICAL ASSOCIATION,
PATHARDI BRANCH.
The readers are clever enough to decide who is fraud and who is misleading them by referring fraudulent documents as proof.
You are free to approach SC, I have no doubts it will serve our purpose because we are the victims of CORRUPT & ILLOGICAL MEDICAL EDUCATION SYSTEM OF INDIA..!
Dear Mr.Deshmukh
Whatever you are, either a victim or claimant doesn’t matter. You should not argue for anything you are not actually qualified. At least in the health sector, as it is notan area for proving any thing on right or providing something on claims etc. It works on actual facts and qualification, because it deals with the life of the people. I am very much doubtful whether you have even registered with MCI in the appropriate register? You are not answering for that question. The MCI has only three registers and they don’t have a separate register for the graduates from INTEGRATED MEDICINE.
We are in the process of getting an order against this quackery from the MCI. Otherwise MCI must clarify the question whether the MCI rules and regulations are valid in the case of only MBBS graduates?
The said order from Mahharashtra govt which you are so far referring is not valid as it contravenes the clauses in the central act.
See the following quote from MCI Act 1956
///”15. Subject to the other provisions contained in this Act, the medical qualifications included in the schedules shall be sufficient qualification for enrolment on any State Medical Register.” It laid down that the qualifications included in the Schedules should be sufficient qualification for enrolment on any State Medical Register. It may be pointed out here that in none of the Schedules the qualifications of integrated courses figure consequently by virtue of this section persons holding degrees in integrated courses cannot be registered on any State MedicalRegister.///
If you are not registered with MCI, you are not supposed to prefix “Dr.” to your name to show that you are a medical practitioner.
As long as Maharashtra government doesn’t include your qualification in the schedule which contains the degrees or qualifications required for registering in the modern medical register with the State Medical Council, You cannot practice allopathic medicine on the mere order from the government department. Otherwise the state should pass a law in this regard… A mere order from the department is not sufficient to carry out practice in the allopathic system.
For your clarity I will quote few relevant lines from the DR. MUKHTIAR CHAND & ORS V. THE STATE OF PUNJAB & ORS [1998] RD-SC 491 (8 October 1998) judgment…
///A harmonious reading of Section 15 of 1956 Act and Section 17 of 1970 Act leads to the conclusion that there is no scope for a person enrolled on the State Register of Indian medicine or Central Register of Indian Medicine to practise modern scientific medicine in any of its branches unless that person is also enrolled on a State Medical Register within the meaning of 1956 Act.
if any State Act recognizes their qualification as sufficient for registration in the State Medical register, the prohibition contained in Section 15(2)(b) of the
1956 Act will not apply.
However, after sub-section (2) in Section 15 of the 1956 Act occupied the field vide Central Act 24 of 1964 with effect from June 16, 1964, the benefit of the said rule and the notifications issued thereunder would be available only in those States where the privilege of such right to practise any system of medicine is conferred by the State Law under which practitioners of Indian Medicine are registered in the State, which is for the time being in force. The position with regard to Medical practitioners of Indian medicine holding degrees in integrated courses is on the same plain inasmuch as if any State Act recognizes their qualification as sufficient for registration in the State Medical register, the prohibition contained in Section 15(2)(b) of the 1956 Act will not apply.///
TO RECOGNISE YOUR DEGREE AS SUFICIENT FOR REGISTRATION IN THE STATE MEDICAL REGISTER, EITHER THE STATE HAVE TO INCLUDE YOUR QUALIFICATION IN THE SCHEDULE OR THEY HAVE TO MAKE A SEPARATE LAW FOR THAT.
You are referring only a MERE ORDER FROM THE DEPARTMENT on the basis of DRUG ACT for the justification of the quackery carrying out by you.. You can very well read in the said judgment that
“The right to practise modern scientific medicine or Indian system of medicine cannot be based on the provisions of the Drugs Rules and declaration made thereunder by State Governments.”
KEEP IN MIND THAT NO ACT OTHER THAN THE MCI ACT 1956 OR RESPECTIVE STATE MEDICAL COUNCIL ACT CAN PERMIT ANY ONE TO PRACTICE MODERN MEDICINE.( IT SHOULD BE BY AN ACT OR BY A LAW AND NOT BY A MERE DEPARTMENTAL ORDER)
…… AS YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO CARRY OUT FURTHER DIISCUSSION IN THIS MATTER LET THE READERS MAKE THE JUDGMENT….
Vtharavath
Dear Dr.Vtharavath,
I have read all your arguments.All your arguments are false…
You are using pseudo-legal language to push your point.
There is a lobby from IMA which always oppose ISM practitioners,you are one of them…
But remember we all are registered medical practitioners of Indian
medicine [ISM DOCTORS]. we all are registered under Maharashtra
medical practitioners act 1961 [MMP ACT 1961] also corelated with
section 17 of The Indian medicine central council act 1970 [act no 48
of 1970] ( IMCC act 1970) in part one of the register.
1) According to MMP ACT 1961 section 2(fa) says that
indian medicine means astang ayurveda or siddha or unani whether
supplimented or not by such modern advances as the central council
from time to time by notification may declare under clause (e) of
section 2 of the IMCC ACT 1970
Also section 25(1) says that a legally qualified
medical practitioner under MMP ACT 1961,having right to practice any
system of medicine shall,in all acts of the state legislature and in
all central acts i.e.IMCC ACT 1970.
Also section 33(1)(i) says that the register
mentiontioned under MMP ACT 1961,registered practitioners shall
practice any system of medicine in the state.
2) IMCC ACT 1970,in which all practitioners of ISM are
registered are having right and privilege of practicing any system of
medicine have been protected under section 17(3)(b) of IMCC ACT 1970.
3) According to the state GAZZETE published by GOVT OF
MAHARASHTRA dated 25/11/1992 it is clearely mentioned that “the govt
of maharashtra here by directs that the ayurvedic practitioners
enrolled on the state register under MMP ACT1961 holding qualification
specified in part A,B & A-1 of the shedule appended in the said act
shall be eligible to practice the modern system of medicine which is
known as allopathic system of medicine to the extent of the training
they received in that system.
4) when the food and drug commissioner issued a
missguiding circular dated 18/12/1996 directing to all the chemists in
maharashtra not to honour the prescriptions of ISM doctors if it
contains allopathic medicine,our organisation filed a writ petition in
Honourable HIGH COURT Mumbai bench,the Honourable HIGH court Mumbai
quashed the said circular & after that department of medical
education & drug passed a GOVT. NOTIFICATION order dated 23/02/1999
that the practitioners registerd under MMP ACT 1961 in part A,A-1,B&D
can practice modern scientific system of medicine for the purpose of
the drug & cosmetic act 1940 (23 of 1940).
5) In the letter issued by under secretary b.h.tayade
dated 28/05/2007 under RIGHT TO INFORMATION ACT it is clearly informed
that the ayurvedic practitioners can practice allopathic system of
medicine.
6)according to the CCIM resolution dated 30/08/1996
“institutionally qualified practitioners of ISM & those covered under
IMCC ACT 1970 are eligible to practice Indian system of medicine &
modern medicine which is known as allopathic medicine including
surgery, gynacology& obstetrics based on their training &
teaching.this training & teaching is included in the syllabus of CCIM.
The meaning of the word modern advances means advances made in various
branches of modern scientific medicine,clinical,non-clinical &
bio-sciences.
7) According to the CCIM notification dated 30/10/1996
it is clearly mentioned that,”The right of practitioners of ISM
doctors to practice modern scientific system of medicine (Allopathic
medicine) are protected under section 17(3)(b) of Indian medicine
central council act 1970.
Thus from all above evidences it is absolutely clear
that ISM doctors are eligible to practice modern medicine which is
known as allopathic medicine.
so we all are INTEGRATED practitioners and can use
AYURVEDA as well as ALLOPATHY.It is our right and we are not doing cross
pathy practice.
Regards..
DR.SANTOSH TUPERE
Thanks Dr.Santosh
Even CCIM, vide its notification dated 30/10/1996, says that ISM doctors can practice Allopathy
Good Move
Not only few state government, but even CCIM has accepted the superiority of Allopathy 🙂 🙂 🙂
Good
No doubt sir,
Allopathy is always superior to other pahies,
And we are allowed to use Modern Medicine to the extent we have received training in that system (Modern Medicine).
Modern Medicine was included in our syllabus and you can refer CCIM syllabus for BAMS course to assure that.
CCIM have clearly stated that BAMS can practice allopathy (Modern Medicine) to the extent they have received training.
Maharashtra Govt. have accepted all these things.
Even then Union Health Minister Dr.Ambumani Ramdoss have clearly stated that BAMS can use Modern Medicine while giving answer to the question in Loksabha.
And according to all this, we are practicing Modern Medicine within our limits.
We know our limits very well.
Majority of BAMS practitioners are offering their services in rural area..
There is no need to start new course like BRMS/BRHC for rural health.
But extremist like Dr.Vtharavath are ignoring all these facts and making fuss over this issue..
BAMS Practitioners is readily available resource to develop Rural Health Care..!
Happy Doctors’ Day..!
( As per CCIM ,we Are allowed to prefix Dr.)
dr.yogiraj deshmukh
NATIONAL INTEGRATED MEDICAL ASSOCIATION,
PATHARDI BRANCH.
CCIM IS NOT THE STATUTORY BODY FOR GOVERNING THE PRACTICE IN MEDICINE AS DOCTORS BY ANYONE IN INDIA….
VTHARAVATH
No doubt sir,
Allopathy is always superior to other pathies,
And we are allowed to use Modern Medicine to the extent we have received training in that system (Modern Medicine).
Modern Medicine was included in our syllabus and you can refer CCIM syllabus for BAMS course to assure that.
CCIM have clearly stated that BAMS can practice allopathy (Modern Medicine) to the extent they have received training.
Maharashtra Govt. have accepted all these things.
Even then Union Health Minister Dr.Ambumani Ramdoss have clearly stated that BAMS Practitioners can use Modern Medicine while giving answer to the question in Loksabha.
And according to all this, we are practicing Modern Medicine within our limits.
We know our limits very well.
Majority of BAMS practitioners are offering their services in rural area..
There is no need to start new course like BRMS/BRHC for rural health.
But extremist like Dr.Vtharavath are ignoring all these facts and making fuss over this issue..
BAMS Practitioners is readily available resource to develop Rural Health Care..!
Happy Doctors’ Day..!
( As per CCIM ,we Are allowed to prefix Dr.)
With Regards
dr.yogiraj deshmukh
NATIONAL INTEGRATED MEDICAL ASSOCIATION,
PATHARDI BRANCH.
Ok
Some Loud Thinking
Would you prefer, if Ayurveda is made as a Speciality to be Studied AFTER MBBS and the degree given is MD Ayurveda
Just asking
What are your thoughts on this
Respected sir,
You are very right sir..!
If one want to learn & practice Ayurveda, He should first have basic qualification in medical field i.e.MBBS.
This is a revolutionary idea..!! Every one those who want to treat human beings should have basic qualification in Universally accepted medical science i.e.Modern Medicine..!
Once again thanks for the revolutionary concept…!
Will Authorities Positively Think on This Suggestion..!!!
Thanx with Regards…
dr.yogiraj deshmukh
NATIONAL INTEGRATED MEDICAL ASSOCIATION,
PATHARDI BRANCH.
//If one want to learn & practice Ayurveda, He should first have basic qualification in medical field i.e.MBBS.// Yes. Because Ayurveda Doctors are forced to use more efficient modern medicine drugs than their less efficient and highly toxic drugs
//This is a revolutionary idea..!! Every one those who want to treat human beings should have basic qualification in Universally accepted medical science i.e.Modern Medicine..!//
Yes
Because many state governments and CCIM have categorically stated that Ayurveda Practioners be permitted to use the more efficient Allopathy drugs
Your statement need to be modified like this “Every one those who want to treat human beings WITH MODERN MEDICINE DRUGS should have basic qualification in Universally accepted medical science i.e.Modern Medicine..!”
Since Ayurveda Doctors want to use Allopathy drugs, isn’t it better for them to first get qualified in MBBS and then do Ayurveda as a speciality as MD Ayurveda after MBBS instead of BAMS
//Will Authorities Positively Think on This Suggestion..!!!//
Of course, if you people fight for it
Haven’t they already thought positively and permitted you to use Allopathy drugs 🙂 🙂
Respected sir,
You are very right sir..!
If one want to learn & practice Ayurveda, He should first have basic qualification in medical field i.e.MBBS.
This is a revolutionary idea..!! Every one those who want to treat human beings should have basic qualification in Universally accepted medical science i.e.Modern Medicine..!
Once again thanks for the revolutionary concept…!
Will Authorities Positively Think on This Suggestion..???
Thanx with Regards…
dr.yogiraj deshmukh
NATIONAL INTEGRATED MEDICAL ASSOCIATION,
PATHARDI BRANCH.
DEAR SIR
WITHOUT THE BASICS OF AYURVEDA IN THE MBBS CURRICULAM, HOW CAN AN MBBS GRADUATE PURSUE MD AYURVEDA?
BEFORE SUCH MOVE ALL THE AYURVEDA MEDICAL COLLEGES AND OTHER ISM MEDICAL COLLEGES MUST BE CLOSED FOR EVER.
THE STUDENT WHO WISH TO GET ADMISSION FOR MBBS COURSE HAVE TO UNDER GO ALL THE TESTING PROCEDURES STIPULATED BY MCI.
IN THIS SITUATION THE MCI HAS TO MODIFY THE PRESENT SELECTION METHODS TO A DIFFERENT LEVEL TO TEST THE ATTITUDE, ABILITY, INTEREST OF THE CANDIDATE SEEKING ADMISSION TO MBBS,
ALL THE ABOVE THE CURRENT ISM PRACTITIONERS MUST STOP THEIR ILLEGAL PRACTICE OF MODERN MEDICNE.
FROM THEIR DISCUSSIONS IT BECOMES VERY CLEAR THAT THE ISM
( AYURVEDA,SIDHA,UNANI) DOESN’T HAVE ANY SCIENTIFIC BASE.IN THAT CASE HOW CAN THE GOVT PERMIT SUCH SYSTEM TO TREAT THE PUBLIC? IT WILL BE AS GOOD AS LEGALISING THE WITHCH CRAFT AS A SYSTEM OF MEDICINE.
REGARDS
VTHARAVATH
//FROM THEIR DISCUSSIONS IT BECOMES VERY CLEAR THAT THE ISM
( AYURVEDA,SIDHA,UNANI) DOESN’T HAVE ANY SCIENTIFIC BASE.//
That is why they have relied on the scientific basis of Allopathy
They study Anatomy of Allopathy System of Medicine because AYURVEDA,SIDHA,UNANI does not have any scientific basis for Anatomy
They study Physiology of Allopathy System of Medicine because AYURVEDA,SIDHA,UNANI does not have any scientific basis for Physiology
They study Biochemistry of Allopathy System of Medicine because AYURVEDA,SIDHA,UNANI does not have any scientific basis for Biochemistry
They study Pathology of Allopathy System of Medicine because AYURVEDA,SIDHA,UNANI does not have any scientific basis for Pathology
They study Microbiology of Allopathy System of Medicine because AYURVEDA,SIDHA,UNANI does not have any scientific basis for Microbiology
They do not study Pharmacology of Allopathy, but want to use them
So I am proposing – That Ayurveda should be a Master Degree after MBBS. Abolish BAMS and give MD Ayurveda. Abolish BSMS and give MD Siddha. If that be the case, these doctors can very well use the more efficient allopathy drugs instead of less efficient or non efficient but highly toxic ayurveda drugs
THE PHARMACISTS AND NURSES ARE ALSO STUDYING PART OF MODERN MEDICINE AS THE PART OF THEIR CURRICULAM.
THERE IS NO MACHINERY IN OUR COUNTRY TO MONITOR THE EXTENT OF TREATMENT PROVIDED BY THESE ISM PRACTITIONERS IN MODERN MEDICINE AND PUNISH, IF NECESSARY.
WITHOUT REGISTERING IN THE SMC’s OR MCI’s MODERN MEDICAL REGISTER EVEN AN MBBS GRADUATE IS NOT BE ALLOWED TO PRACTICE MODERN MEDICINE IN ANY STATE OF INDIA.
REGARDS
VTHARAVATH
WHY SHOULD THESE AYUSH OR ISMs ARE TAUGHT THE BASICS OF ANATOMY,PHYSIOLOGY,etc WHICH ARE ,IN ANY WAY, CANNOT BE CORRELATED TO THE CONCEPTS OF ‘RASA,PITHTHA’KHAPHA’ ON WHICH THE AYURVEDA IS BASED?
THIS IS THE MAIN REASON FOR QUACKERY…ONLY RELATED AND NECESSARY SUBJECTS SHOULD BE TAUGHT AT THE GRADUATION LEVEL.OTHERWISE MISUSE OF SUBJECT WILL BE THE RESULT.
THEY ARE NOT GOING TO CONTRIBUTE ANYTHING GOOD TO THE HEALTH OF THE PUBLIC EXCEPT DAMAGES ABOUT WHICH THE PUBLIC WILL BE AWARE ONLY IN THE LONG RUN.
THEY COULD HAVE BEEN CONTRIBUTED GOOD FOR THE PUBLIC HEALTH IF THEY WOULD HAVE PRACTICED THEIR OWN SYSTEM OF MEDICINE IN THE PROPER WAY!! ! ! ! ! ! !
EVERY ONE SHOULD KEEP IN MIND THAT TREATING DISEASE AND CURING DOESNOT NECESSARILY MEAN CONTRIBUTING GOOD TO THE PUBLIC HEALTH.RATHER THEY CONTRIBUTE ILL HEALTH TO THE SOCIETY IF IT IS NOT CARRIED OUT IN THE
“PROPER WAY”…..
VTHARAVATH
WHY SHOULD THESE AYUSH OR ISMs ARE TAUGHT THE BASICS OF ANATOMY,PHYSIOLOGY,etc WHICH,IN ANY WAY
CANNOT BE CORRELATED TO THE CONCEPTS OF ‘RASA,PITHTHA’KHAPHA’ ON WHICH THE AYURVEDA IS BASED?
THIS IS THE MAIN REASON FOR QUACKERY…ONLY RELATED AND NECESSARY SUBJECTS SHOULD BE TAUGHT AT THE GRADUATION LEVEL.OTHERWISE MISUSE OF SUBJECT WILL BE THE RESULT.
THEY ARE NOT GOING TO CONTRIBUTE ANYTHING GOOD TO THE HEALTH OF THE PUBLIC EXCEPT ONLY DAMAGE ABOUT WHICH THE PUBLIC WILL BE AWARE ONLY IN THE LONG RUN.
THEY COULD HAVE BEEN CONTRIBUTED GOOD FOR THE PUBLIC HEALTH IF THEY WOULD HAVE PRACTICED THEIR OWN SYSTEM OF MEDICINE IN THE PROPER WAY!! ! ! ! ! ! !
EVERY ONE SHOULD KEEP IN MIND THAT TREATING DISEASE AND CURING DOESNOT NECESSARILY MEAN CONTRIBUTING GOOD TO THE PUBLIC HEALTH.RATHER THEY CONTRIBUTE ILL HEALTH TO THE SOCIETY IF IT IS NOT CARRIED OUT IN THE “ PROPER WAY”…..
VTHARAVATH
THE PHARMACISTS AND NURSES ARE ALSO STUDYING PART OF MODERN MEDICINE AS THE PART OF THEIR CURRICULAM.
THERE IS NO MACHINERY IN OUR COUNTRY TO MONITOR THE EXTENT OF TREATMENT PROVIDED BY THESE ISM PRACTITIONERS IN MODERN MEDICINE AND PUNISH, IF NECESSARY.
WITHOUT REGISTERING IN THE SMC’s OR MCI’s MODERN MEDICAL REGISTER EVEN AN MBBS GRADUATE IS NOT BE ALLOWED TO PRACTICE MODER MEDICINE IN ANY STATE OF INDIA.
REGARDS
VTHARAVATH
WELLCOME FOR ALL GREAT IDEAS…
BUT CRIME IS CRIME… QUACKERY IS QUACKERY…
THESE IDEAS ARE NOT THE SOLUTION FOR THE QUACKERY THAT THESE ISM PRACTITIONERS PRESENTLY DOING ….
ALL THE IDEAS PROPOSED ARE AFTER HAVING THE BASIC QUALIFICATION OF MBBS…
SINCE THE PRESENT ISM DOCTORS DO NOT HAVE THE BASIC QUALIFICATION OF MBBS TO PRACTICE MODERN MEDICINE THEY MUST
STOP THEIR PRACTICE IN MODERN MEDICINE AND RESTRICT THEIR PRACTICE ONLY IN THEIR OWN SYSTEM OF MEDICINE.
VTHARAVATH
CCIM IS NOT THE STATUTORY BODY FOR GOVERNING THE PRACTICE IN MEDICINE AS DOCTORS BY ANYONE IN INDIA….
VTHARAVATH
Dear All
HERE IS THE RESPONSE FROM DR.M.C.GUPTA
Dr. Santosh Tupere and Dr. Yogi and others in the NIMA are either ignorant or misguided. I am sending this open letter / Q-A to them by the way of this response. Those who are in touch with them may kindly forward this mail to them. They are welcome to present my views to a lawyer and let him reply to it. Let them treat it as a legal notice. If I don’t receive a proper legal reply to it, it would be understood that they have nothing to say in defence.
As regards the alleged GAZZETE publication dated 25/11/1992, they should send me a copy so that I may send a detailed response. My immediate response is that it is dated 1992 and has been rendered ineffectual in view of two later SC judgments (Poonam Verma judgment, 1994 and Mukhtiar Chand, 1998).
–M C Gupta
***********************
What is wrong if an integrated medicine practitioner like me practices modern medicine?
QUESTION– I have a degree in Ayurveda and am registered under the Maharashtra Medical Practitioners’ Act, 1961; I claim FIRSTLY, that the government has declared me to be a Registered Medical Practitioner; SECONDLY, that I am a practitioner of integrated medicine; THIRDLY, that the Indian Medicine Central Council Act, under which I am registered, entitles me to practice modern medicine; and, FOURTHLY, that I have a right to practice any system of medicine. How can anybody deny my claim and right?
ANSWER—
1–Your first claim is right to the extent that you have been declared to be a registered Medical Practitioner under Rule 2(ee) of the Drugs and Cosmetics Rules, 1945. You must remember that you are not registered under the Maharashtra Medical Council Act, 1965, or the Indian Medical Council Act, 1956. The Supreme Court has clearly differentiated between the two in Dr. Mukhtiar Chand & Ors. Vs. State Of Punjab & Ors., Date of Judgment: 08/10/1998, K. T. Thomas, Syed Shah Mohammed Quadri, AIR 1999, SC 468, (1998 (7) SCC 579).
The court stated as follows: “A harmonious reading of Section 15 of 1956 Act and Section 17 of 1970 Act leads to the conclusion that there is no scope for a person enrolled on the State Register of Indian Medicine or Central Register of Indian Medicine to practise modern scientific medicine in any of its branches unless that person is also enrolled on a State Medical Register within the meaning of 1956 Act. The right to practise modern scientific medicine or Indian system of medicine cannot be based on the provisions of the Drugs Rules and declaration made thereunder by State Governments”.
2—Your claim that you are a practitioner of integrated medicine is wrong. You are simply a qualified Vaid.
A-There is nothing like integrated medicine or an integrated medicine practitioner.
B–The Maharashtra Medical Practitioners’ Act, 1961, under which you are registered, does not have any words or term like integrated medicine. You cannot invent and assume your own terms and designations. The Act defines the term Indian Medicine as follows:
“2(1)(e) “Indian Medicine” means the system of Indian medicine commonly known as Ashtang Ayurveda, Siddha or Unani Tibb whether supplemented or not by such modern advances as the Central Council may declare by notification from time to time.”
C—It has been claimed that by virtue of the words “whether supplemented or not by such modern advances”, in the above definition, Indian Medicine is inclusive of Modern Medicine. This has been held as incorrect by the SC in the Mukhtiar Chand judgment the following words:
“However, the claim of those who have been notified by State Governments under clause (iii) of rule 2(ee) of the Drugs Rules and those who possess degrees in integrated courses to practice allopathic medicine is sought to be supported from the definition of the Indian Medicine in Section 2(e) of 1970 Act, referred to above, meaning the system of Indian medicine commonly known as Ashtang Ayurveda, Siddha or Unani Tibb whether supplemented or not by such modern advances as the Central Council may declare by notification from time to time. Lot of emphasis is laid on the words underlined to show that they indicate modern scientific medicine as under integrated systems various branches of modern scientific medicine have been included in the syllabi. A degree holder in integrated courses is imparted not only the theoretical knowledge of modern scientific medicine but also training thereunder, is the claim. We shall examine the notifications issued by the Central Council to ascertain the import of those words. In its resolution dated March 11, 1987, the Central Council elucidated the concept of “modern advances” as follows:
“This meeting of the Central Council hereby unanimously resolved that in Clause (e) of Sub-section 2(1) of 1970 Act of the IMCC Act, ‘the modern advances’, the drug has advanced made under the various branches of modern scientific system of medicine, clinical, non-clinical, biosciences, also technological innovations made from time to time and declare that the courses and curriculum conducted and recognised by the CCIM are supplemented by such modern advances.”
On October 30, 1996 a clarificatory notification was issued, which reads as under:
“As per provision under Section 2(1) of the Indian Medicine Central Council Act, 1970, hereby Central Council of Indian Medicine notifies that ‘institutionally qualified practitioners of Indian system of medicine (Ayurveda, Siddha and Unani) are eligible to practise Indian system of medicine and modern medicine including Surgery, Gynecology and Obstetrics based on their training and teaching which are included in the syllabi of courses of ISM prescribed by Central Council of Indian Medicine after approval of the Government of India. The meaning of the word ‘modern medicine’ (Advances) means advances made in various branches of Modern scientific medicine, clinical, non-clinical bio-sciences also technological innovations made from time to time and notify that the courses and curriculum conducted and recognised by the Central Council of Indian Medicine are supplemented by such modern advances.”
Based on those clarifications, the arguments proceed that persons who registered under the 1970 Act and have done integrated courses, are entitled to practise allopathic medicine. In our view, all that the definition of ‘Indian Medicine’ and the clarifications issued by the Central Council enable such practitioners of Indian medicine is to make use of the modern advances in various sciences such as Radiology Report, (x-ray), complete blood picture report, lipids report, E.C.G., etc. for purposes of practising in their own system. However, if any State Act recognized the qualification of integrated course as sufficient qualification for registration in the State Medical Register of that State, the prohibition of Section 15(2)(b) will not be attracted. A harmonious reading of Section 15 of 1956 Act and Section 17 of 1970 Act leads to the conclusion that there is no scope for a person enrolled on the State Register of Indian Medicine or Central Register of Indian Medicine to practise modern scientific medicine in any of its branches unless that person is also enrolled on a State Medical Register within the meaning of 1956 Act. The right to practise modern scientific medicine or Indian system of medicine cannot be based on the provisions of the Drugs Rules and declaration made thereunder by State Governments”.
D—That there is nothing like “integrated medicine” is also clear from the 2005-06 annual report of the Department of AYUSH–renamed in November 2003 from the earlier name Department of Indian Systems of Medicines and Homoeopathy (ISM & H)– mentions only the following within its ambit—“ Ayurveda; Yoga & Naturopathy; Unani; Siddha; and, Homoeopathy”. It speaks nothing about “integrated medicine”. The report can be viewed at http://mohfw.nic.in/WriteReadData/l892s/Ayushannualreportfinal-22348189.pdf
E–It is clear that the term “integrated medicine” has been coined falsely and mischievously and with ulterior motives in order to cheat the general public. Some people have even got registered an association known as NIMA (National Integrated Medical Association). Legal action needs to be taken against this association for spreading falsehood and promoting quackery.
3—Your third claim that you are authorised under the CIMC Act, 1970, to practice modern medicine is wrong. The Act says nothing of the sort. The meaning of the words
“modern advances” has been made clear by the SC in Mukhtiar Chand above. It does not mean modern medicine.
4—Your fourth claim that you are authorised to practice any system of medicine is wrong, as has been amply emphasised by the SC in Mukhtiar Chand case. You have a right to practice only Ayurveda, in which you hold a degree and are registered on the basis of that degree. Your name appears on the Indian medicine Register and not on the State Medical Register or the IMR.
5—Please remember that if you practice modern medicine / allopathy, you can be punished as per Indian Medical Council Act, 1956, as follows:
“15(3) Any person who acts in contravention of any provision of sub-section (2) shall be punished with imprisonment for a term which may extend to one year or with fine which may extend to one thousand rupees, or with both”.
6—You are also liable under the Consumer Protection Act, 1986.
7—In addition, you would also be liable under the Clinical Establishment Act. You are advised to confine your practice as a Vaid and to stop your illegal activities.
—M C Gupta
MBBS & MD (Medicine), AIIMS; MPH (San Carlos Univ.)
LL.B. (Delhi); LL.M. (Kurukshetra)
Fellow: National Foundation of Clinical Forensic Medicine
Member, Indian Law Institute
Member, Supreme Court Bar Association
Ex-Additional Professor, AIIMS
Ex-Professor and Dean, NIHFW
Practicing advocate, (Delhi Bar Council no. 857/2001)
http://www.writing.com/authors/mcgupta44
Author: “Law For Doctors: 150 Questions answered” by Dr. MC Gupta & Dr. Namit Gupta
http://www.medicalbookseller.com
30 June 2011
The issue of fraudulent MCI circular raised by Dr.Deshmukh Sir is very serious one..
MCI Should go into details,
How it’s letter pad is misused..?
Who are the culprits behind it..?
What are there motives..?
Yes
Misuse of letter pad is a big offence
////How it’s letter pad is misused..?
Who are the culprits behind it..?
What are there motives..?////
WHY DO YOU WORRY ABOUT AN ORDER WHICH IS NOT PUBLISHED IN THE PAGE YET?..ONLY AN ANNOUNCEMENT WAS THERE ABOUT THE EXISTANCE OF SUCH A LETTER ..WITHOUT A SOLID PROOF WHY YOU ARE SAYING LIKE THIS? IF YOU HAVE A SOLID PROOF ABOUT IT,YOU SHOULD HAVE FILED A COMPLAINT AGAISNT IT TO THE CONCERNED AUTHORITY…
STILL YOUR PRACTICE AS MODERN MEDICAL PRACTIONER IS ILLEGAL AND YOU ARE DOING IS QUACKERY…
NO ONE OTHER THAN MCI OR SMC CANNOT ALLOW YOU TO PRACTICE MODERN MEDICINE.EVEN THE STATE GOVT WANT TO ALLOW YOU TO PRACTICE ALLOPATHY,THEY CAN DO IT THROUGH SMC.
FOR THAT AMENDMENT OF LAW OR SMC SCHEDULE IS MANDATORY.
VTHARAVATH
SORRY FOR THE ERRORS IN THE EARLIER COMMENT…..
////How it’s letter pad is misused..?
Who are the culprits behind it..?
What are there motives..?////
WHY DO YOU WORRY ABOUT AN ORDER WHICH IS NOT PUBLISHED IN THE PAGE YET?..ONLY AN ANNOUNCEMENT WAS THERE ABOUT THE EXISTANCE OF SUCH A LETTER ..WITHOUT A SOLID PROOF WHY YOU ARE SAYING LIKE THIS? IF YOU HAVE A SOLID PROOF ABOUT IT,YOU SHOULD HAVE FILED A COMPLAINT AGAISNT IT TO THE CONCERNED AUTHORITY…
STILL YOUR PRACTICE AS MODERN MEDICAL PRACTIONER IS ILLEGAL AND YOU ARE DOING QUACKERY…
NO ONE OTHER THAN MCI OR SMC CAN ALLOW YOU TO PRACTICE MODERN MEDICINE.EVEN THE STATE GOVT WANT TO ALLOW YOU TO PRACTICE ALLOPATHY,THEY CAN DO IT THROUGH SMC.
FOR THAT AMENDMENT OF LAW OR SMC SCHEDULE IS MANDATORY.
VTHARAVATH
SORRY FOR THE ERRORS IN THE EARLIER COMMENT…..
////How it’s letter pad is misused..?
Who are the culprits behind it..?
What are there motives..?////
WHY DO YOU WORRY ABOUT AN ORDER WHICH IS NOT PUBLISHED IN THE PAGE YET?..ONLY AN ANNOUNCEMENT WAS THERE ABOUT THE EXISTANCE OF SUCH A LETTER ..WITHOUT A SOLID PROOF WHY YOU ARE SAYING LIKE THIS? IF YOU HAVE A SOLID PROOF ABOUT IT,YOU SHOULD HAVE FILED A COMPLAINT AGAISNT IT TO THE CONCERNED AUTHORITY…
STILL YOUR PRACTICE AS MODERN MEDICAL PRACTIONER IS ILLEGAL AND YOU ARE DOING QUACKERY…
NO ONE OTHER THAN MCI OR SMC CAN ALLOW YOU TO PRACTICE MODERN MEDICINE.EVEN THE STATE GOVT WANT TO ALLOW YOU TO PRACTICE ALLOPATHY,THEY CAN DO IT THROUGH SMC.
FOR THAT AMENDMENT OF LAW OR SMC SCHEDULE IS MANDATORY.
VTHARAVATH
Here the question is not whether the letter of clarification given by Dr. Nayyar is fraudulent or the MCI/Circular/10/1116-31-32/Anti-Quackery/2010 dated August 10, 2010 is fraudulent but all the medical practitioners need to understand that law expects a medical practitioner ( MBBS/MS/MD/MCH/DM or BAMS or Homeopathic)to exercise reasonable degree of skill and knowledge while treating his patients.
Doing something which a doctor is not suppose to do or failing to do something which he is suppose to do amounts to negligence ( civil or criminal). The degree of competence is not a fixed quality, but varies according to the status of the doctor.
An MBBS doctor is expected to exercise the knowledge & skill which he has acquired during MBBS degree as prescribed by the Medical Council of India for MBBS course
An MS or MD is expected to exercise higher degree of knowledge & skill which he has acquired during MS or MD degree as prescribed by the Medical Council of India for MS or MD course
Similarly BAMS doctor is expected to exercise the knowledge & skill which he has acquired during BAMS degree as prescribed by the Indian medicine central council for BAMS course. If allopathic medicines as a subject on name of modern medicine is there in BAMS curriculum, then their practice should be restricted to the contents of that part of modern medicine subject of BAMS ( to treat minor ailment by allopathic medicines ) and should not dare to treat complicated cases/surgeries as it is not expected and not there in the modern medicine subject of BAMS course.
All the doctors should know their limitations while treating a patient, whether he is BAMS or MBBS or MD/MS or DM/ MCH especially the BAMS doctors to prevent any legal complication.
DEAR Dr. PRAVIR
YOU ARE RGHT….BUT THOSE WHO ARE NOT REGISTERED WITH SMC OR MCI AS MODERN MEDICAL PRACTITIONER SHOULD NOT PRACTICE MODERN MEDICINE,BY LAW, EVEN IF THEY STUDY MODERN MEDICINE AS A PART OF THEIR CURRICULAM.IF THEY ARE ALLOWED,THEN EVEN THE NURSES,PARMACISTS ETC SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO PRACTICE MODERN MEDICINE.
ALSO, THE GOVERNMENT HAS NOT SET A MECHANISM TO MONITOR TO WHAT EXTENT THESE QUACKS PRACTICE MODERN MEDICINE.THEY SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO PRACTICE MODERN MEDICINE, AS IT WILL ADVERSELY AFFECT THE HEALTH OF HE PATIENTS.IT IS VERY CLEAR FROM THE DISCUSSIONS THAT THEY ARE PRACTICING TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT.SEE THE STATEMENT GIVEN BY MR.DESHMUKH—////“We are worthy of practicing Modern Medicine and we are ready to prove it any time before competant authority.////….
REGARDS
VTHARAVATH
Dear All
HERE IS THE RESPONSE FROM DR.M.C.GUPTA
Dr. Santosh Tupere and Dr. Yogi and others in the NIMA are either ignorant or misguided. I am sending this open letter / Q-A to them by the way of this response. Those who are in touch with them may kindly forward this mail to them. They are welcome to present my views to a lawyer and let him reply to it. Let them treat it as a legal notice. If I don’t receive a proper legal reply to it, it would be understood that they have nothing to say in defence.
As regards the alleged GAZZETE publication dated 25/11/1992, they should send me a copy so that I may send a detailed response. My immediate response is that it is dated 1992 and has been rendered ineffectual in view of two later SC judgments (Poonam Verma judgment, 1994 and Mukhtiar Chand, 1998).
–M C Gupta
***********************
What is wrong if an integrated medicine practitioner like me practices modern medicine?
QUESTION– I have a degree in Ayurveda and am registered under the Maharashtra Medical Practitioners’ Act, 1961; I claim FIRSTLY, that the government has declared me to be a Registered Medical Practitioner; SECONDLY, that I am a practitioner of integrated medicine; THIRDLY, that the Indian Medicine Central Council Act, under which I am registered, entitles me to practice modern medicine; and, FOURTHLY, that I have a right to practice any system of medicine. How can anybody deny my claim and right?
ANSWER—
1–Your first claim is right to the extent that you have been declared to be a registered Medical Practitioner under Rule 2(ee) of the Drugs and Cosmetics Rules, 1945. You must remember that you are not registered under the Maharashtra Medical Council Act, 1965, or the Indian Medical Council Act, 1956. The Supreme Court has clearly differentiated between the two in Dr. Mukhtiar Chand & Ors. Vs. State Of Punjab & Ors., Date of Judgment: 08/10/1998, K. T. Thomas, Syed Shah Mohammed Quadri, AIR 1999, SC 468, (1998 (7) SCC 579).
The court stated as follows: “A harmonious reading of Section 15 of 1956 Act and Section 17 of 1970 Act leads to the conclusion that there is no scope for a person enrolled on the State Register of Indian Medicine or Central Register of Indian Medicine to practise modern scientific medicine in any of its branches unless that person is also enrolled on a State Medical Register within the meaning of 1956 Act. The right to practise modern scientific medicine or Indian system of medicine cannot be based on the provisions of the Drugs Rules and declaration made thereunder by State Governments”.
2—Your claim that you are a practitioner of integrated medicine is wrong. You are simply a qualified Vaid.
A-There is nothing like integrated medicine or an integrated medicine practitioner.
B–The Maharashtra Medical Practitioners’ Act, 1961, under which you are registered, does not have any words or term like integrated medicine. You cannot invent and assume your own terms and designations. The Act defines the term Indian Medicine as follows:
“2(1)(e) “Indian Medicine” means the system of Indian medicine commonly known as Ashtang Ayurveda, Siddha or Unani Tibb whether supplemented or not by such modern advances as the Central Council may declare by notification from time to time.”
C—It has been claimed that by virtue of the words “whether supplemented or not by such modern advances”, in the above definition, Indian Medicine is inclusive of Modern Medicine. This has been held as incorrect by the SC in the Mukhtiar Chand judgment the following words:
“However, the claim of those who have been notified by State Governments under clause (iii) of rule 2(ee) of the Drugs Rules and those who possess degrees in integrated courses to practice allopathic medicine is sought to be supported from the definition of the Indian Medicine in Section 2(e) of 1970 Act, referred to above, meaning the system of Indian medicine commonly known as Ashtang Ayurveda, Siddha or Unani Tibb whether supplemented or not by such modern advances as the Central Council may declare by notification from time to time. Lot of emphasis is laid on the words underlined to show that they indicate modern scientific medicine as under integrated systems various branches of modern scientific medicine have been included in the syllabi. A degree holder in integrated courses is imparted not only the theoretical knowledge of modern scientific medicine but also training thereunder, is the claim. We shall examine the notifications issued by the Central Council to ascertain the import of those words. In its resolution dated March 11, 1987, the Central Council elucidated the concept of “modern advances” as follows:
“This meeting of the Central Council hereby unanimously resolved that in Clause (e) of Sub-section 2(1) of 1970 Act of the IMCC Act, ‘the modern advances’, the drug has advanced made under the various branches of modern scientific system of medicine, clinical, non-clinical, biosciences, also technological innovations made from time to time and declare that the courses and curriculum conducted and recognised by the CCIM are supplemented by such modern advances.”
On October 30, 1996 a clarificatory notification was issued, which reads as under:
“As per provision under Section 2(1) of the Indian Medicine Central Council Act, 1970, hereby Central Council of Indian Medicine notifies that ‘institutionally qualified practitioners of Indian system of medicine (Ayurveda, Siddha and Unani) are eligible to practise Indian system of medicine and modern medicine including Surgery, Gynecology and Obstetrics based on their training and teaching which are included in the syllabi of courses of ISM prescribed by Central Council of Indian Medicine after approval of the Government of India. The meaning of the word ‘modern medicine’ (Advances) means advances made in various branches of Modern scientific medicine, clinical, non-clinical bio-sciences also technological innovations made from time to time and notify that the courses and curriculum conducted and recognised by the Central Council of Indian Medicine are supplemented by such modern advances.”
Based on those clarifications, the arguments proceed that persons who registered under the 1970 Act and have done integrated courses, are entitled to practise allopathic medicine. In our view, all that the definition of ‘Indian Medicine’ and the clarifications issued by the Central Council enable such practitioners of Indian medicine is to make use of the modern advances in various sciences such as Radiology Report, (x-ray), complete blood picture report, lipids report, E.C.G., etc. for purposes of practising in their own system. However, if any State Act recognized the qualification of integrated course as sufficient qualification for registration in the State Medical Register of that State, the prohibition of Section 15(2)(b) will not be attracted. A harmonious reading of Section 15 of 1956 Act and Section 17 of 1970 Act leads to the conclusion that there is no scope for a person enrolled on the State Register of Indian Medicine or Central Register of Indian Medicine to practise modern scientific medicine in any of its branches unless that person is also enrolled on a State Medical Register within the meaning of 1956 Act. The right to practise modern scientific medicine or Indian system of medicine cannot be based on the provisions of the Drugs Rules and declaration made thereunder by State Governments”.
D—That there is nothing like “integrated medicine” is also clear from the 2005-06 annual report of the Department of AYUSH–renamed in November 2003 from the earlier name Department of Indian Systems of Medicines and Homoeopathy (ISM & H)– mentions only the following within its ambit—“ Ayurveda; Yoga & Naturopathy; Unani; Siddha; and, Homoeopathy”. It speaks nothing about “integrated medicine”. The report can be viewed at http://mohfw.nic.in/WriteReadData/l892s/Ayushannualreportfinal-22348189.pdf
E–It is clear that the term “integrated medicine” has been coined falsely and mischievously and with ulterior motives in order to cheat the general public. Some people have even got registered an association known as NIMA (National Integrated Medical Association). Legal action needs to be taken against this association for spreading falsehood and promoting quackery.
3—Your third claim that you are authorised under the CIMC Act, 1970, to practice modern medicine is wrong. The Act says nothing of the sort. The meaning of the words
“modern advances” has been made clear by the SC in Mukhtiar Chand above. It does not mean modern medicine.
4—Your fourth claim that you are authorised to practice any system of medicine is wrong, as has been amply emphasised by the SC in Mukhtiar Chand case. You have a right to practice only Ayurveda, in which you hold a degree and are registered on the basis of that degree. Your name appears on the Indian medicine Register and not on the State Medical Register or the IMR.
5—Please remember that if you practice modern medicine / allopathy, you can be punished as per Indian Medical Council Act, 1956, as follows:
“15(3) Any person who acts in contravention of any provision of sub-section (2) shall be punished with imprisonment for a term which may extend to one year or with fine which may extend to one thousand rupees, or with both”.
6—You are also liable under the Consumer Protection Act, 1986.
7—In addition, you would also be liable under the Clinical Establishment Act. You are advised to confine your practice as a Vaid and to stop your illegal activities.
—M C Gupta
MBBS & MD (Medicine), AIIMS; MPH (San Carlos Univ.)
LL.B. (Delhi); LL.M. (Kurukshetra)
Fellow: National Foundation of Clinical Forensic Medicine
Member, Indian Law Institute
Member, Supreme Court Bar Association
Ex-Additional Professor, AIIMS
Ex-Professor and Dean, NIHFW
Practicing advocate, (Delhi Bar Council no. 857/2001)
http://www.writing.com/authors/mcgupta44
Author: “Law For Doctors: 150 Questions answered” by Dr. MC Gupta & Dr. Namit Gupta
http://www.medicalbookseller.com
30 June 2011
Our discussions are going on two different tracks . 1)strict legal sense 2)social point of view , We are practicing in rural areas and facing so many practical problems for which solution are not given in any book or journal . we are not doing any illegal act or commission ,we only want “MAINSTREAM RECOGNITION “. The basic rule of discussion is, both the persons shall share views on common crux . Here we want to share practical problems and practical solutions not legal we are very well aware about it . We all are in same profession and we have to see each others problems with sympathy . This forum is necessary to share our grief . As some one said ‘Don’t come with problems , come with solutions . We want solution and not combat. We may be sharp, Intellectual and keen in our arguments but still question remain unanswered . We are not rivals trying to takeover each others companies . This problem have a very complex socioeconomic canvas and very deep subjective as well as objective analysis is necessary . If we are able to see each others without prejudice and bias then and then only we can discuss .With all due respect i m discharging myself from discussion . thanks to all . . .
dr.yogiraj deshmukh
NATIONAL INTEGRATED MEDICAL ASSOCIATION,
PATHARDI BRANCH.
WE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THE HEALTH OF PUBLIC. ALL THE RULES AND REGULATIONS ARE MADE BY INTELLIGENT AND KNOWLEDGEABLE PEOPLE FOR THE WELL BEING OF THE PUBLIC. SO IF YOU ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THE HEALTH OF THE PUBLIC; PLEASE RESTRICT YOUR PRACTICE IN THE AREA IN WHICH YOU ARE ALLOWED TO PRACTICE AS PER THE LAWS.
IF YOU ARE QUALIFIED FOR THE “MAINSTREAM RECOGNITION ” IT SHOULD COME BY LAWS. IT SHOULD NOT COME BY ARGUMENTS AND COLLECTIVE BARGAINING, ESPECIALLY IN THE HEALTH SECTOR, WHICH WILL ADVERSELY AFFECT THE HEALTH OF THE POOR PUBLIC.
SO ONE MUST ABIDE THE LAWS AND RULES.OTHERWISE IT IS TERMED AS QUACKERY.IT IS ILLEGAL
WE OPPOSE QUACKERY AND MORALLY WE HAVE TO DO THAT.
WE DON’T WANT TO HARM ANY ONE.
BEING AN INDIAN CITIZEN YOU ARE BOUND TO ABIDE THE LAWS IN INDIA.
THE LAWS AND REGULATIONS ARE NOT MEANT FOR THE MODERN MEDICAL PRACTITIONERS ALONE
THANKS TO ALL
VTHARAVATH
DEAR SIR,HI, 6-7-2011.
I HAVE ALREDY STRUGLED A LOT ON THE FOLLOWING DOCTRINE SINCE ONE AND A HALF DECADES WITH MINIMUM SUCCESS!!. —-
—-IF I HAVE STUDIED ALLOPATHY I MUST STICK TO ALLOPATHY ONLY, AND NOTHING ELSE…..[1]
—-IF I HAVE STUDIED AYURVEDA , I MUST STICK TO AYURVEDA ONLY, AND NOTHING ELSE….[2]
—-IF I HAVE STUDIED HOMEOPATHY I MUST STICK TO HOMEOPATHY ONLY AT ALL COSTS AND NOTHING ELSE….[3]
IF [1] AND [2] AND [3]WANT TO PRACTICE THE SCIENCE THAT THEY HAVE NOT STUDIED, THEY SHOULD BE DECLARED AS QUACKS AND QUACKERY IS PUNISHABLE.MEDICINES AND METHODS OF TREATMENT ARE MEANT TO GIVE US HEALTH FROM ILLHEALTH.IF I DO NOT KNOW THAT MEDICINE AND THAT METHODOLOGY,AND I PRACTICE IT,I WILL BE WRONG AND UNKNOWINGLY GIVE ILLHEALTH INSTEAD OF HEALTH.IT WILL BE EQUIVALENT TO THROW AN ARROW WITHOUT KNOWING THE TAEGET.IF AYURVEDACHARYAS AND HOMEOPATHS WANT TO BECOME DOCTORS[=MODERN AND
ALLOPATHIC PRACTITIONERS], THEY MUST UNDERGO A COMPLETE STUDY OF THE SAME AND GET THEMSELVES REGISTERED WITH IMC,AND STATE
MEDICAL COUNCIL,MAY IT BE DIPLOMA OR DEGREE.LICENCE OF THAT PATHY IS MUST–MUST, AND ESSENTIAL.ALLOWING [2] AND [3] TO UNDERGO ALLOPATHIC DIPLOMA AS COMPULSION AND REGISTRATION IS A MUST WITH STATE MEDICAL COUNCIL AND IMC IF THEY WISH TO TOUCH ALLOPATHIC DRUGGS .THEY SHOULD STOP CHEATING THEMSELVES ANY MORE BY WRONG DOINGS BECAUSE PATIENTS TREAT THEM AS GODS.NO MORE ALTRATIONS AND BIFURCATIONS PLEASE. STOP KILLING HUMANBEING TO EARN A FEW BUCKS.! CUT PRACTICE SHOULD BE TREATED AS CHEATING
YOUR OWN PATIENTS BECAUSE YOU WILL OVERCHARGE THEM TO PAY THE REFERING DRS.AND IF YOU ARE PAYINGND NONMEDICOES, QUACKS,YOU SHOULD BE LISTED AS DEMONS!!!.
[FROM- DR MAHAVIR].MY EXPERIMENTS WITH ABOVE TRUTHS HAVE GIVEN ME LOTS OF PAINS , LOT OF BAD EXPERIANCES.MEDICOES SHOULD TARGET THE DISEASES WITHOUT AN AOTA OF ATTENTION TO MONEY,OR THE REFERING PERSON OR HIS ATTITUDES.DO NOT LOVE QUACKS BECAUSE THEY ARE PAYING YOU.IN FACT YOU ARE OBLIGING REFERING DRS BY TREATING THEIR PTS SUCCESSFULLY.THEY MUST REWARD YOU AND YOU ONLY.THEY GET THE BLESSINGS FROM THEIR PTS AS THEIR FEES ONLY AND NOT CUTS FROM YOUR FEES.THIS WILL KEEP THE POOREST AMENABLE
FOR GOOD CARE AT AFFORDABLE COSTS AND THE SUPERIORS WILL NOT PERFORM UNNECESARY TREATMENTS AND ADMISSIONS OR OPERATIONS.
THIS ALSO WILL AVOID BLACK MONEY DEALS,THE COUNTRY WILL BENEFIT.99 PERCENT CUT BUSINESS INVOLVES BLACK DEALS.USA DOES NOT ALLOW THIS. I HAVE SEEN AN US PERSON IN INDIA BEING BICOTTED WHEN HE STARTED PREACHING AGAINST CUT PRACTICE.!
–MAHAVIR ANNA.–
YOU ARE RIGHT SIR…
THESE QUACKS THINK THAT DOCTOR PROFESSION IN MODERN MEDICINE IS A GOOD WAY TO MAKE MONEY.THEY DON’T KNOW THE DEDICATION, HARDSHIPS, SACRIFISES AND HENCE THE PAIN TAKEN BY THE REAL DOOCTOR TO PROVIDE GOOD HEALTH CARE TO HIS PATIENTS.NO ONE IS AWARE OF THIESE FACTS.SO THE BLAMES, WRONG CONCEPTS AND EVEN SOMETIMES THE ATTACKS AGAINST THE DOCTORS ARE TAKING PLACE.
EVERY ONE WANTED TO BE A MODERN MEDICAL PTACTITIONERS;EX:
1. AYUSH
2. HOMEOS
3. SIDHAS
4. ISMS etc
5. PSYCHOLOGISTS
6. PYSIOTHERAPISTS
7. PHARMACIST
8. EVEN UNEDUCATED QUACKS, WHO HAVE SERVED AS A SERVENT IN THE DOCTORS HOUSE etc etc etc
THEY FIND IT IS THE EASY WAY TO MAKE MONEY AND THE GOVERNMENT MECHINARIES SUPPORT FOR THEIR ‘HOLLY’ TAKS.EVEN MEDIAS ARE SOME TIME PUBLISH SUPPORTING ARTICLES OR NEWS FOR THEM.MEDIS ALWAYS REPORTS AGAINST THE DOCTORS.I DON’T KNOW WHETHER THEY ARE HAVING HIGHLY EGOISTIC ATTITUDE TOWARDS THE DOCTORS.I FEEL SOMETIMES,IT IS SIMILAR TO THE EARLIR WHITE SKIN AND BLACK SKIN KIND OF ATTITUDE.
NO ONE REALIZES, INCLUDING THE MEDIAS, THE HARDSHIPS, SACRIFISES AND DEDICATION THAT A DOCTOR HAS TO PUT IN TO RENDER HIS SERVICE VERY EFFECTIVELY….
THE GOVT AND THE MCI ARE INTOXICATED WITH PCI AND THEIR FRIENDS……
REGARDS
VTHARAVATH
Dear Sir,
I am an Ayurvedic doctor from Kerala. i have read some opinions discussed here. In Kerala an ayurvedic doctor can’t prescribe allopthic medicine to a patient because the patient comes to him for pure ayurvedic treatment. If he needs allopathy there are enough speciality and super speciality doctors available.But as a doctor I think the ISM doctors may legally allowed to practice a certain range of emergency medicines. This is not an argument for practicing allopathy. If a patient with severe suffocation comes he may relieved by a nebulisation. Later using ayurvedic medicines he can be treated effectively.Likewise in certain emergency conditions it may be allowed
Dear Dr.KrishnaKumar,
You are well aware that there is no mechanism for monitoring the extent of allopathic treatment given by ISM doctor in our country. It is the MCI rule that no one other than the person qualified in modern medicine can practice allopathic medicine in any form. MCI is the only regulatory body to control practice in modern medicine by any one in India. The regulators made this act not for interpreting according to our need. You must keep in mind that the first few minutes of a critical patient are very crucial to save his/her life and the patient must obtain proper treatment in that period. If some half backed ISM person gives improper and illogical treatment and waste the crucial hours, it will cost the patients life. It is the right of a citizen to receive proper and quality treatment at any time. So it involves human right issue also. If some thing happens adversely, then this ISM doctor will have a nice time.
Regards
Vtharavath
GOVT OF INDIA ALLOWED FOR PTACTICE IN ELECTROHOMEOPATHY ON 05/05/2010
GOVT OF INDIA ALLOWED FOR PTACTICE IN ELECTROHOMEOPATHY ON 05/05/2010(ORDER NO:V:25011/276/HR-2009)
GOVT OF INDIA ALLOWED FOR PTACTICE IN ELECTROHOMEOPATHY ON 05/05/2010(ORDER NO:V:25011/276/HR-2009),FOR MORE DTAIL VISIT:http://WWW.JOINCOME.WETPAINT.COM
Dear Vtharavath,
1)If BAMS etc. doctors are doing illegal,then why did the govt. not stop them in last few decades?
2)You are right by saying that every BAMS etc. wanted to be an MBBS,but they opted for BAMS etc course because Govt. allowed Allopathy practice to them!
3)What about those BAMS etc doctors who are already successfully curing people with allopathy since ages
3)Instead of we fighting among ourselves,why not try to build a healthcare system that is universal,where every doctor is a doctor and is eligible to cure the patient irrespective of which pathy used
4)lastly I suggest that all the Doctors BAMS etc should be asked to take a refresher course in Allopathy for 6 months
Dr.Nisar
HOPE THE FOLLOWING COMMENTS FROM VARIOUS EMINENT PERSONS WILL CLEAR YOUR DOUBTS….
by: “Kuldeep Raj”
Ayurveda doctors are NOT allowed to practise allopathy?
Why ? Answer is here –
1. Their syllabus does not include Allopathic medicine (they only read it
as an extra curricular activity)
Gazette notified copy of syllabus is attached. Slide 40
(Their syllabus do not include allpathic training/exams)
2. Judiciary had made it clearly evidenced it in may judgements
See the slides 25 to 28. After which there is no suspicion.
All previous notiifcation and orders before this were quashed
3. CCIM has also accepted these facts (See slide 22)
Aur kitne saboot chahiyee – puri presentation dekh kar suiside mat kar lena
http://www.authorstream.com/Presentation/ayushsurvey1-1382854-ayush/
by Dr.M.C.Gupta
We must understand the fact that the ministers / legislators / politicians want votes. The quacks and their clients are a sizeable vote bank. The government does not want to spread the legal principle laid down by the SC that cross pathy is illegal. The CCIM, a statutory body, and the AYUSH department, a part of the MOH, have been supporting quackery in various ways. The answer given by the MOH in the parliament about quackery was vague. He never made a frank and clear statement but rather answered in a round about way.
By Rajender Sharma
Apart from land mark Mukhtiar Chand Judgement–( which can be negated by the Legislature like in case of Shah Bano ) there is one more aspect to it.
If AYUSH practitioners are to be allowed to practice allopathy then who will practice the fine and in no way inferior art of ancient ayurveda, unani and Homeopathy. ?? This is no way to further the cause of these unique systems of healing .This way we will kill these systems.
Let us not mix up the different streams of healing and make a cocktail.
Every thought process, system and method of treatment has its own place and should be encouraged. Let these all systems be complimentary to each other , help these develop and flourish , but allowing the practitioners of these systems to use allopathic medicines instead of their own will surely cause their down fall and a great loss to humanity. This should not be done and should not be allowed to be done by short sighted politicians for sake of votes.
By DR.C. SRINIVASA RAJU
CHAIRMAN- IMA IT Committee
SECRETARY- Hospital Board of India – IMA AP STATE.
Why we are opposing the ‘cross pathy’ practice in medicine?
Fundamentally its illegal to practice cross pathy in our country.
Even though the Supreme Court banned ayurveda doctors from practising allopathy 16yrs ago, thousands of doctors continue to indulge in this wrong practice, and have also given it a new term: integrated medicine.
We know, Once the ayurveda & sidha are mainstream medicine of our land. But, Current practices of Ayurvedic medicine are regarded as part of complementary and alternative medicine.
No doubt, Nowadays, Ayurveda is not mainstream medicine.
We have separate statutory councils for these two streams and entirely different curriculums.
We know, In India, research in ayurveda is largely undertaken by the statutory body of the Central Government, the Central Council for Research in Ayurveda and Siddha (CCRAS), through a national network of research institutes.
The heavy metallic toxicity in ayurvedic medicines repeatedly proved as per studies conducted in 1990 & 2004 &2008 and these studies concluded that ayurvedic products posed serious health risks and should be tested for heavy-metal contamination.
We never forget, even modern medicine drugs also causing drug allergies and reactions inspite of stringent drug trails in vivo&vitro.
The purification techniques of “rasa shastra” are different from purification methods of modern medicine.
Modern medicine has been evolving on the basis of hectic scientific research, clinical drug trials, post-market surveillance.
As we have no established mechanism to study the effects of combined usage of allopathic and ayurvedic drugs, there is always a safety question of adverse drug interactions, if we concomitantly use both allopathy and ayurveda .
Politicians can’t tinker away the modalities of medical treatment protocols of our country.
If the govt wants to promote combined system of medicine let it alter its existing acts in parliament and then promote another new course of “allo-ayurved”.
By Dr.Anil Bansal
In Mukhtiar Chand v/s Punjab Government judgement it was Ayurvedic people only who approached supreme court against the orders of Haryana and Punjab High court. (Mukhtiar Chand was an ayurvedic practioner).They had a special advocate who pleaded for them with their syllabus requesting supreme court to allow them practice in modern system of medicine on the basis of their teaching.The issue was discussed in detail for more than 11 years and ultimately Hon.Supreme court refused for this.The court said that they can study anything for diagnostic purpose only but have to practice or treat in their system only.
This is a land mark judgment.